Paper discussing the mathematics of relativity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the mathematics of special and general relativity, with a focus on original papers by H.A. Lorentz, H. Minkowski, and A. Einstein. Participants explore the need for mathematical support in understanding relativity, contrasting historical papers with modern advancements in the field.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Historical
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks papers that provide mathematical conclusions related to the principles of relativity, expressing frustration with the lack of such resources in existing literature.
  • Another participant provides a link to a relevant paper, suggesting it may be useful for the original inquiry.
  • A participant questions the relevance of historical papers, suggesting that significant progress has been made in understanding relativistic physics since those works were published.
  • The original poster clarifies their intent to use historical papers as a foundation for understanding the mathematical developments in relativity, emphasizing the importance of comprehending how conclusions were formulated.
  • Another participant agrees with the original poster's approach but suggests that most students might benefit more from modern textbooks before delving into historical papers, citing the complexity of the context surrounding the original works.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the value of historical papers versus modern texts. While there is agreement on the importance of understanding the formulation of theories, opinions vary on the best approach to learning about relativity.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that understanding the original papers may require familiarity with outdated concepts and historical context, which could distract from a straightforward understanding of modern relativistic physics.

lvlastermind
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Hello

I am looking for a paper that discusses the mathematics behind the special/general theories of relativity. The majority of the papers I have come across so far discuss the principals of relativity and do not support it with mathematical conclusions. One of the papers I am looking for is by H.A. Lorentz, H. Minkowski, and A. Einstein. I think the paper was published under the title Das Relativitdtsprinsip (The Principal of Relativity). Also, if someone could point me toward a link to the original papers that Einstein published c1900 that would be much appreciated. Thanks for all your help.
 
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Question for lvlastermind

lvlastermind said:
The majority of the papers I have come across so far discuss the principals of relativity and do not support it with mathematical conclusions.

Are you a student of history of physics? If not, why would you ignore the tremendous amount of progress which has been made in understanding relatvistic physics since the book you asked about was first published? The book you asked about is a collection of original papers, none later than 1918, so it is 90 years out of date if you want to learn about relativistic mathematical physics.
 
The paper I am writing is for a history of science class but i am also interested in progress that has been made. Furthermore, I am more interested in the math that accompanies this progress then I am the hypothesis and paradoxes that have resulted. I am not ignoring the progress that has been made. I am simply creating a base for my understanding to further interpret the theory. I believe it is just as important to comprehend how the conclusions of the theory were formulated then the theory itself.

Thanks for the link robphy
 
OK, I get it.

lvlastermind said:
The paper I am writing is for a history of science class

Now I understand your interest in the original papers! :wink:

lvlastermind said:
I am simply creating a base for my understanding to further interpret the theory.

Great! Well, I'm sure PF posters will be happy to recommend more books which might bring you up to date (in fact, try the books I recommended to Yiannis in another current thread).

lvlastermind said:
I believe it is just as important to comprehend how the conclusions of the theory were formulated then the theory itself.

Agreed, although those who don't have a good reason for studying the original papers (as you do) will IMO find it more efficient to study modern textbooks first to master how these theories are currently formulated, interpreted, and used, and later look back at the original papers for more historical perspective. One reason for this is that in order to fully understand the context of the original papers, you need to study all kinds of now archaic concepts and even contemporary world history, stuff which is a distraction for those who just want to understand relativistic physics. IOW, in my experience a kind of "cleaned up" and "simplified" faux-history is preferrable for most students to trying to understand the actual twists and turns as they occurred in a complex intellectual, social, and political context. In many ways, 1905-1915 was a very different era than our own.
 
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