Parallel string walking between two threaded cylinders?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the design of a cable-driven reduction system involving a threaded rod and a larger threaded cylinder. Participants explore the mechanics of string walking and the need for the string to remain parallel to the ground to avoid triangulation. The conversation includes calculations related to pitch, helical angles, and the implications of design choices.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the dimensions and pitch of an M8 threaded rod and a larger 3D-printed cylinder, noting discrepancies in pitch measurements.
  • The same participant presents calculations regarding the movement of the coil on the bolt and the corresponding travel on the drum, leading to a proposed angle for the helical groove.
  • Another participant suggests using a geared guide to maintain string parallelism and questions the adequacy of tension to keep the string in the grooves.
  • A later reply emphasizes a preference for a more complex design over simpler mechanical solutions, asserting that the string's tension will be managed to ensure it remains in the grooves.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the design approach and the calculations involved. While one participant acknowledges an error in their calculations, there is no consensus on the best method to ensure the string remains parallel or on the adequacy of the proposed solutions.

Contextual Notes

Participants note potential limitations in their calculations, including assumptions about pitch and the relationship between the threaded rod and the larger cylinder. The discussion reflects ongoing uncertainty regarding the mechanical interactions and design implications.

thorq
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Hello, I have a problem that seems to have beaten me.

I want to make a cable-driven reduction system between a threaded rod (pinion) and a larger threaded cylinder. Because of string walking, the string between the two has to stay at all times straight, parallel to the ground so that triangulation is avoided.

I have the following input data:
- threaded rod M8 (7.8mm Major Diam, ~6.8mm Minor Diam, Pitch (is supposed to be) 1.25mm - but i had a macro picture next to a ruler and in a graphical program I could measure more then 1.25, about 1.33mm but can't be sure as the measurement is not exact.
- large cylinder (Diam=120mm) - this one I will 3D print with the calculated threading.

I have already done this procedure once assuming 1.25mm pitch but apparently i did something wrong during my calculations and now the threaded string on the pinion travels faster than the corresponding coil on the larger drum/cylinder.

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Below is my (apparently wrong) calculations and logic:

The coil on the bolt moves up or down with "P-pitch" mm at every bolt rotation so the coil on the drum must travel the same vertical distance to keep the line between the two entities parallel at all times. Since only so much string can be accommodated by the bolt at a complete turn, the compensation on the drum is in the steeper angle of the "imaginary" groove.

For example, an M8 bolt typically has a pitch of 1.25mm (coarse). The threading is a helix with a radius smaller than the 4mm, about ~3.325 actually, plus the radius of the string used (ex: 0.16). I used the calculator at https://www.easycalculation.com/physics/classical-physics/helix.php and got a string helical length of ~23mm for a 3.45mm radius helix over 1.25mm of height at an angle of 60deg.

So for each rotation of the bolt the coil on the bolt travels 1.25mm on up or down and winds or unwinds 23mm from the larger drum.

To keep up with this travel, the angle of the string on the drum should travel 1.25mm in height every 23mm, which translates to about 3deg of an angle (http://www.pagetutor.com/trigcalc/trig.html).
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Ok, I think I've found my error after a while. I haven't even wrote it in the description of the issue because I couldn't see it. So my calculations are ok except that after I get the 3deg angle for the helix on the larger cylinder/drum, I have wrongly calculated the pitch of the helix based on the diameter of the drum rather than the circumference of the drum.

So, to conclude this, the helical groove on the drum should have a 23.5mm pitch rather than my previous calculation of 12.5 because if you unroll the 120mm cylinder and draw a line at 3deg angle, the height between the starting point and the end point is this number.

But I am sure you know better math than me so this expl is most likely not needed.
 
Did you consider having a geared guide to lay the string on two smooth cylinders in the way you want? (like a fishing reel) It would be more complicated but it could force the string to keep parallel.
But, if the pitches are inversely proportional to the radius, it should take care of itself, I think. And your idea is much more sophisticated.
PS Can you be sure that the tension will always be enough to keep the string in the grooves?
 
I prefer complication in design and dumbness in mechanics. It would have been common sense to do this with a timing belt but instead I opted for Dyneema/Kevlar string. The tension on the string will be applied in such a way that it will be kept in the grooves, provided the grooves are the correct path, the path the string would take anyways if it was properly tensioned on a smooth cylinder. I want the grooves to take out any possibility of this predictable movement to go haywire.

The string will not rely only on friction on the large cylinder but while the middle of the loop will be coilde around the bolt/threaded rod, the ends will be on the larger cylinder, secured by knots.