Partial derivative of Lagrangian with respect to velocity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the partial derivative of the Lagrangian with respect to velocity, specifically examining the equation $$\frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{q}}=p$$ in the context of classical mechanics. Participants explore derivations and interpretations of this relationship.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant derives $$\frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{q}}$$ from the Lagrangian $$L=\frac{1}{2}m\dot{q}^2-V$$ and concludes that it equals $$p$$.
  • The same participant presents an alternative form of the Lagrangian and arrives at $$\frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{q}}=\frac{1}{2}p$$, suggesting a discrepancy with the first derivation.
  • Another participant argues that using the expression $$\frac{1}{2}\dot{q} p$$ requires the product rule for differentiation, indicating that the derivation may not be straightforward.
  • A later reply confirms that if $$p = m\dot{q}$$, then the derivative $$\frac{\partial}{\partial \dot{q}} p$$ equals $$m$$.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correct application of differentiation in this context, with no consensus reached on the validity of the two derivations presented.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights potential confusion regarding the application of differentiation rules and the interpretation of the Lagrangian's structure, but does not resolve these issues.

Adel Makram
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I came across a simple equation in classical mechanics,
$$\frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{q}}=p$$
how to derive that?
On one hand,
$$L=\frac{1}{2}m\dot{q}^2-V$$
so, $$\frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{q}}=m\dot{q}=p$$
On the other hand,
$$L=\frac{1}{2}m\dot{q}^2-V=\frac{1}{2}m\dot{q}\dot{q}-V=\frac{1}{2}\dot{q}p-V$$
$$\frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{q}}=\frac{1}{2}p$$
which is half value from the first derivation.
 
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Adel Makram said:
I came across a simple equation in classical mechanics,
$$\frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{q}}=p$$
how to derive that?
On one hand,
$$L=\frac{1}{2}m\dot{q}^2-V$$
so, $$\frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{q}}=m\dot{q}=p$$
On the other hand,
$$L=\frac{1}{2}m\dot{q}^2-V=\frac{1}{2}m\dot{q}\dot{q}-V=\frac{1}{2}\dot{q}p-V$$
$$\frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{q}}=\frac{1}{2}p$$
which is half value from the first derivation.

Well, writing [itex]\frac{1}{2}m \dot{q}^2[/itex] as [itex]\frac{1}{2}\dot{q} p[/itex] doesn't change anything; you have to use the product rule:

[itex]\frac{\partial}{\partial \dot{q}} \frac{1}{2} \dot{q} p = (\frac{\partial}{\partial \dot{q}} \dot{q}) \frac{1}{2} p + \frac{1}{2} \dot{q} (\frac{\partial}{\partial \dot{q}} p)[/itex]
 
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that is true.
 
Adel Makram said:
that is true.

Well, if [itex]p = m\dot{q}[/itex], then [itex]\frac{\partial}{\partial \dot{q}} p = m[/itex]
 

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