Path of the particle on inclined plane

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a particle on an inclined plane, analyzing the forces acting on it, particularly in the context of static equilibrium and the effects of tension in a string. Participants explore the relationship between the angle of inclination, friction, and the motion of the particle.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the forces acting on the particle, including tension, friction, and gravitational components. There are questions about the correct interpretation of angles involved and the conditions under which the particle remains stationary or begins to move.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants offering various interpretations of the forces and angles involved. Some have provided equations to describe the motion, while others question the assumptions made regarding static equilibrium and the direction of friction. There is no explicit consensus yet, but several productive lines of reasoning are being explored.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the problem is constrained by the condition that the angle of inclination is set such that tanθ = μ, and there is ongoing debate about the implications of this condition on the particle's motion and the role of friction.

  • #91
Exactly. You have to start the particle somewhere. So, C is determined by the initial conditions.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Vibhor
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #92
Back to second quadrant .

TSny said:
In the first second quadrant an infinitesimal amount of tension will set the particle in motion. If the tension is kept essentially at zero as the particle moves at a slow constant speed in the first second quadrant, what direction does the kinetic friction need to act so that the net force is zero? If you know the direction of the kinetic friction, what can you say about the direction of the motion?

I am still bemused by the fact that even if the string is pulled at some angle to the +y direction ( even though it is a very small magnitude Tension force ) at t=0 when the particle was at rest in second quadrant , the particle instead of going radially inwards towards the hole starts moving down slope .

Please explain it a bit more .
 
  • #93
Vibhor said:
Back to second quadrant .
I am still bemused by the fact that even if the string is pulled at some angle to the +y direction ( even though it is a very small magnitude Tension force ) at t=0 when the particle was at rest in second quadrant , the particle instead of going radially inwards towards the hole starts moving down slope .

Please explain it a bit more .
I had to think about this, too. I attempted an explanation in post #42. I'll let you think about it some more. I'm shutting down for the night. Good work!
 
  • #94
Vibhor said:
Ok . Good point .
I don't know . Even though I have got the equation of the curve , I can't imagine how the particle is actually moving (except it is moving in a circular fashion not centered at the hole) . I am still not sure how to determine constant ##C## .
With a bit of geometry, you can get the curve fairly easily from TSny's excellent diagram in post #71.
The string makes the same angle to the 'vertical' through the hole as it does to the direction of travel of the mass. If you take the normal to the direction of travel, at the particle, and a horizontal line through the hole, these intersect at a point O. The string forms a chord of the circle centred at O and passing through the hole and the mass. The direction of travel is a tangent. So as the mass moves a short distance, its distance from O does not change. Having moved that distance, all of the above statements still apply, and with the same point O as centre.

Thanks TSny for taking over on this thread. I only have net access briefly each day at the moment (cycling Berlin to Copenhagen), and I'm sure I would not have found such a clear route to the answer.
 
  • #95
haruspex said:
With a bit of geometry, you can get the curve fairly easily ...
Nice.
(cycling Berlin to Copenhagen)
Wow :wideeyed:. Enjoy and be safe.
 
  • #96
TSny said:
I had to think about this, too. I attempted an explanation in post #42. I'll let you think about it some more.

Couple of thoughts .

a) As soon as tension is applied on the particle the ,the direction of friction changes ( from up slope ) , but the direction of net force on the particle has to be downward such that the particle starts moving downward .

b) As soon as tension exists in the string , the equilibrium of particle is disturbed which causes it to move down slope . But why down slope ?
 
  • #97
Vibhor said:
b) As soon as tension exists in the string , the equilibrium of particle is disturbed which causes it to move down slope . But why down slope ?
I assume you are referring to the case where the mass starts at a level above the hole. For any actual nonzero tension in the string, the motion of the mass will have a horizontal component towards the hole. But in the limit, as the tension tends to zero, that component tends to zero.
 
  • #98
And why not vertical component also tend to zero and particle stays at rest instead of moving down slope ?
 
  • #99
TSny said:
In the first second quadrant an infinitesimal amount of tension will set the particle in motion.

Could you please explain how does tension (acting at an angle) causes the particle to move down slope . I have thought about it but I am still unsure .

Thanks
 
  • #100
Vibhor said:
And why not vertical component also tend to zero and particle stays at rest instead of moving down slope ?
That can be answered by going back to the equation that allowed for arbitrary tension and acceleration you had before TSny joined the thread and generalising it to the case where the string is at some angle to the horizontal. You can take the limit as acceleration tends to zero and see that (where the particle is further up the plane than the hole) the path tends to the 'vertical'.
I don't know if there is another way to demonstrate it convincingly.
 
  • #101
Vibhor said:
Could you please explain how does tension (acting at an angle) causes the particle to move down slope . I have thought about it but I am still unsure .
Suppose the particle does not move parallel to the y-axis when in the second quadrant. What direction would the friction force point? Could the forces sum to zero in this case?
 
  • #102
Thank you very much TSny . You have exhibited remarkable skills in solving this problem :bow:. I really appreciate your help . Thanks again .
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
11
Views
1K
  • · Replies 36 ·
2
Replies
36
Views
6K
Replies
8
Views
2K
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
1K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
6K