What caused the teenager to die while charging her phone in the bath?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the tragic incident of a teenager who died while charging her phone in the bath. Participants explore potential causes of the electrocution, focusing on the electrical safety of chargers, the role of extension cords, and the specifics of USB technology. The conversation includes technical reasoning, speculation about the circumstances, and concerns regarding electrical safety standards.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Speculative

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the charger may have had poor isolation, potentially due to being a clone or substandard product.
  • There is speculation about whether the phone fell into the bath, connecting its metal case directly to the USB chassis.
  • Concerns are raised about the possibility of using an extension cord in the bath, which could introduce additional risks.
  • Some participants question the reliability of media reports and emphasize the need for more technical details to understand the incident fully.
  • There are discussions about the current-carrying capacity of USB cables and whether they could deliver a lethal shock under certain conditions.
  • Participants express uncertainty about the safety of USB chargers and the implications of ghost voltages observed in testing.
  • Some argue that the danger of low-voltage systems like USB is often overstated compared to higher voltage systems.
  • Others highlight that even low currents can be dangerous in specific scenarios, such as in water, where drowning could occur alongside electrocution.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that there is a lack of concrete information regarding the incident, leading to multiple competing hypotheses about the cause of the electrocution. The discussion remains unresolved, with differing views on the safety of USB chargers and the potential for fatal accidents in similar circumstances.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the absence of definitive details about the charger used, the exact circumstances of the incident, and the potential influence of external factors such as the use of extension cords or the condition of the electrical outlets involved.

  • #91
jim hardy said:
Would you have to shoot us if you did?
Yes.
Guessing I've already told that story about 100 times. :redface:
 
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  • #92
russ_watters said:
...
That said, last year I took a buck-naked shower outside a hut on the African plains. It was glorious.
Actually, this is somewhat interesting, as my friends and I have been camping for the last 25 years, and we recently got into the "solar panel + solar thermal" vs "propane + techno-battery" shower debate.

Their "propane" heated shower was light years ahead of my system, which, actually, never got put into production. [short story]
But both systems used 12 volt pumps, for the water supply.

With "solar electric" coming into vogue, should we now be worried about low voltage deaths?

I've recently found a farmer, who, with "thousands of acres", is willing to accommodate a whole bunch of "eclipse" peeps, for a very reasonable price, right where I want to be.

hmmm... anyways...

As I've said, I think this is going to be an interesting summer.
If I don't electrocute myself, I'll share the data, and "non-shower" pictures. :biggrin:
 
  • #93
Charge cables that come with phones are usually less than 3 feet long.

This would point to an extension cord since she was using the phone in the bath.
 
  • #94
HowlerMonkey said:
Charge cables that come with phones are usually less than 3 feet long.

This would point to an extension cord since she was using the phone in the bath.

Sorry - couldn't resist:

anorlunda said:
Any person jumping in now, is not likely to read the entire history of this thread
 
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  • #95
jim hardy said:
That mighta made sense long ago when they were expensive. Nowadays they're under ten bucks and it's false economy.
Capacitance of long wires daisy-chaining them like that can give false trips especially when it's wet (dielectric constant of water is ~80) .
Well, I replaced the old GFI (from 1976) with a modern one some years ago. And I replaced the outside receptacle built into the wall and changed the cover. The wire is a straight run as shown in this paint drawing. I measured an approximant distance. I've tested the GFI as okay and it's never tripped from moister; have had some really big rains. But I do understand the problems you stated. I'll rewire so to have two GFIs.
bathroom.jpg


BTW nice circuit drawing. I'm going to copy it for future reference.

Thanks for caring Jim.
 
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  • #96
Just 4 feet? That should work fine.

Myself I'd want the outdoor receptacle to be resettable from outside, but that's my OCD showing.

old jim
 
  • #97
Hang on, do I need two GFs in the bathroom, or is only one safe.
 
  • #98
  • #99
With all this talk of GFCI - I'd like to remind people to actually test theirs from time to time.

I was surprised to find my outside GFCI (only a few years old) stuck in the powered state. I figure these are designed to fail "OFF" but not every failure mode can be accounted for in a consumer grade product.

I don't recall now if I tested it with a load to ground, thinking that maybe the "test" switch was bad, but I'd have replaced it anyhow since I could no longer conveniently test it. Today would be a good day to do this, while I'm thinking of it!
 
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  • #100
NTL2009 said:
With all this talk of GFCI - I'd like to remind people to actually test theirs from time to time.

I was surprised to find my outside GFCI (only a few years old) stuck in the powered state. I figure these are designed to fail "OFF" but not every failure mode can be accounted for in a consumer grade product.

I don't recall now if I tested it with a load to ground, thinking that maybe the "test" switch was bad, but I'd have replaced it anyhow since I could no longer conveniently test it. Today would be a good day to do this, while I'm thinking of it!

All our RCDs have a test button that usually switches in a low value resistor in parallel with the neutral, bypassing the sense coil. Often printed on the unit is 'Test Weekly/Monthly' or similar. How many of us bother?!
 
  • #101
NTL2009 said:
With all this talk of GFCI - I'd like to remind people to actually test theirs from time to time.

Excellent point. See those two buttons, one is RESET and the other is TEST. I don't know how the TEST button actually tests.

Ground-Fault-Circuit-Interupter-GFCI.png


Edit: I see @Guineafowl beat me to the punch.
 
  • #102
berkeman said:
Yes, I've read that she used an extension cord, but I'm not finding that news article at the moment. Looks like the parents have changed their story to claim that the phone was plugged into a bathroom outlet (which of course would have had GFCI protection).

That seems more likely, or even just water running down the USB cord to the extension cord outlet.
Older homes in the US have no GFCI protection. The home I grew up in had 2-wire outlets until recently.
 
  • #103
StandardsGuy said:
Older homes in the US have no GFCI protection. The home I grew up in had 2-wire outlets until recently.
It's odd to think about how GFCI works with a two wire system. It's almost as if the older systems were more efficiently designed, resource-wise, than the intermediate 3 wire system.

I'm speaking in the future tense of course.
 
  • #104


A timely video from ElectroBoom. The guy's a bit of a clown but does actually know what he's talking about. The video pretty much tracks the thread.

I just have to highlight the end, where he calls for American plugs to have sleeved pins, much like UK ones... ;) Yay UK!
 
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  • #105
OmCheeto said:
It's odd to think about how GFCI works with a two wire system.
I guess I can't see it that way. How can you be safer than insuring that the exact same current is on both wires? A third wire is irrelevant in this case. Last I knew it was still permitted in the USA to replace 2 wire kitchen countertop receptacles with a GFCI which would be ungrounded.
-
Edit: For that matter I believe it is permitted to do the same in a bathroom. Consider simply banning the replacement of an old two wire receptacle. Would this be safe? Extension cords throughout the house would be the result. The code has to weigh off the possibility of a probable scenario when something is mandated.
 
  • #106
Averagesupernova said:
Consider simply banning the replacement of an old two wire receptacle.
:ok:...

But why... ?
Averagesupernova said:
Extension cords throughout the house would be the result.
Two prong plugs will fit three prong outlets, won't they...?

Of course, there's always the good ol'... cheater plug.
 
  • #107
I'm just pointing out that in the USA it is permissible to leave two wire cables in the wall and replace the worn out receptacle. And in the case of a kitchen countertop or bathroom a GFCI receptacle would be required AND last I checked GFCI receptacles are not available without the third prong. They are required to be labeled as ungrounded and the safety a GFCI receptacle offers is considered good enough in these scenarios. I was also pointing out that it is unreasonable to simply consider an outlet replaced in this manner unsafe to the point of requiring a blank plate installed with a receptacle no longer available as it would lead to many many extension cords. Contrary to what many folks think, safety has tradeoffs and sometimes it is accepted that one installation is acceptable even though it is technically less safe than other installations.
 
  • #108
Averagesupernova said:
I was also pointing out that it is unreasonable to simply consider an outlet replaced in this manner unsafe to the point of requiring a blank plate installed with a receptacle no longer available as it would lead to many many extension cords.
:ok:... that answered both the questions, thank you.
 

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