Physical derivation of the Sin series

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of the sine series, inspired by Feynman's treatment of electric fields and oscillations in capacitors. Participants explore various physical scenarios, including harmonic oscillators and Taylor expansions, to find connections to sine and cosine functions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant references Feynman's lectures, suggesting a method to derive the sine series through physical approximations similar to those used for electric fields and magnetic fields in oscillating systems.
  • Another participant proposes using a harmonic oscillator with specific initial conditions to explore the cosine function, indicating a potential pathway to derive sine expansions.
  • A different participant discusses the significance of higher-order terms in the potential energy of the oscillator, relating them to the cosine expansion and questioning whether this connection is coincidental or meaningful.
  • One participant acknowledges a previous misunderstanding but suggests that the relationship between acceleration and distance traveled might lead to a valid derivation of the series.
  • Another participant claims to have derived a series resembling the cosine function by integrating the jerk and assuming certain terms are zero, questioning whether this approach is valid or flawed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various ideas and approaches without reaching a consensus. There are differing views on the validity of certain derivations and connections, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the correctness of the proposed methods.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the implications of their findings and whether their approaches are significant or merely coincidental. There is also a lack of clarity on the mathematical steps involved in the derivations.

Storm Butler
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I was reading feynman's lectures on physics and i came across the 23-2 in volume two where he is talking about a capacitor at high frequencies. He then uses the equations of E and M to come up with an approximation of the electric field between the two plates as the field oscillates at a high frequency. In order to make the approximation better he accounts for the fact that a changing electric field generates a magenetic field. then he corrects the magnetic field according to the corrected electric field, so on and so forth.

In the end he has an infinite series J_{0} that is the bessel funciton.

I was wondering if there would be any way to come up with the sine expansion in a similar way. I was first looking at a circle with arc length \vartheta and trying to show that the length of the chord was rSin(\vartheta) but I am not sure how to go about it. Maybe someone has some suggestion of how to do it for a more physical situation similar to how feynman did it.
 
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Ive been thinking that one possible way would be looking at a harmonic oscillator. if we have a k constant of 1 and initial conditions, x(0)=1 and x'(0)=0. then we have a solution of x(t)=cos(t). so at time t=0 we have x=1, so we have the beginning of the cos expansion. i don't know how to go forward from there just yet.
 
I figure we will have to look at the higher terms of the potential because that way we can better approximate the motion. similar to how adding terms of higher power to a taylor expansion sort of bends the line out to curve more closely to the function in question. The potential is U=1/2kx^2 or ,in our case with k=1, U=1/2*x^2 or x^2/2!. This is exactly the next term we need for the next piece of the cos expansion. Is this mere coincidence or is it significant?
 
My last post I realize now was completely wrong. I just got excited about seeing the 1/2!x^2 term. however it also shows up if you calculate the distance traveled from the acceleration at time t=0. Perhaps this is in the right track? I'm not sure how to go on from here yet though .
 
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So here's how I worked it out. After everything above, I remembered that since at t=0 the acceleration is a max so it's derivative (the jerk) is 0. Moving on to the next derivative of motion (the snap?) we find the distance traveled is the integral of the jerk or 1/4!x^4. Which is just what we are looking for! I then just continued the argument, assuming all the odd powered terms are zero due to being the derivative of some maximum quantity. Then I found the contribution of the new term to the distance. So I come up with the series 1-1/2!x^2+1/4!x^4-1/6!x^6... Which is the cos ! Does this work? Or did I go wrong somewhere?
 

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