Physics of a chemistry experiment

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a chemistry experiment designed to determine the fraction of air that is oxygen by observing the rusting of steel wool in a graduated cylinder. Participants explore the relationship between the pressures involved in the experiment, specifically the pressure exerted by the gas trapped in the tube, atmospheric pressure, and the pressure of the water column in the cylinder.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the experimental setup and poses a question about the relationship between the pressures involved (Pi, PA, and \rhogh).
  • Another participant suggests that for the sake of the experiment, \rhogh can be assumed to be zero, indicating that the height of the water column is negligible compared to atmospheric pressure.
  • A participant seeks clarification on the terminology used, specifically regarding the meaning of "reservoir" and the inclusion of the gas pressure in the calculations.
  • One participant acknowledges a misunderstanding regarding terminology and agrees with the clarification provided.
  • A participant expresses satisfaction with the clarification and reflects on a previous inconsistency between experimental results and their understanding of the physics involved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the need to clarify the pressure relationships in the experiment, but there remains some uncertainty regarding the inclusion of the gas pressure in the calculations and the implications of the surface area of the water reservoir.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved aspects regarding the assumptions made about the pressure contributions and the impact of the water column height on the overall pressure calculations.

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There is a simple chemistry experiment for finding the fraction of air that is oxygen. You push some steel wool to the bottom of a graduated cylinder. Partly fill the cylinder with water, and invert the tube into a water reservoir such that the steel wool is now above a pocket of air that is above a raised column of water. (Here is an online account with a http://www.practicalchemistry.org/experiments/intermediate/oxidation-and-reduction/how-much-air-is-used-during-rusting,208,EX.html" ). As the steel wool rusts, oxygen is depleted and the water level rises.

The chem class I teach is wrestling through problems with this and variations on the experiment. We are having trouble with one student question: what is the relationship involving the pressure exerted down by the gas trapped in the tube (Pi), the atmospheric pressure acting on the water in the reservoir,(PA) and the [tex]\rho[/tex]gh pressure of the water column in the cylinder? Is it simply that the three sum to zero?
 
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For the sake of the experiment you can safely assume [tex]\rho[/tex]gh=0 because the height of the water column represents a tiny fraction of atmospheric pressure. But there is no reason why you can't calculate what it actually is if you want to. Preservoir + Pwatercolum = Patmospheric
 
russ_watters said:
Preservoir + Pwatercolum = Patmospheric

I'm not sure of your meaning, so let me ask to clarify. I used "reservoir" to mean the water in the outer container, whose surface is exposed to the atmosphere. Is that what you mean? If so, why isn't the pressure of the gas trapped in the tube in the calculation?
 
That was a poor choice of word - you are correct about what it should be.
 
Thanks, Russ. That is very helpful. What you tell is (satisfyingly) what I expected the relationship to be. I was, though, bugged that the surface area of that outer reservoir of water didn't come into play. (I now see my mistake). When the experimental result the student got was inconsistent with my physics, I assumed my physics were wrong.

We'll go back and look at the experimental results again.
 

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