I Poisson distribution regarding expected distance

AI Thread Summary
The discussion revolves around calculating the expected distance from a point in a 1 km² area to a diseased tree, modeled as a Poisson process with λ = 15. Participants explore different approaches, including using the Poisson probability formula and considering the area associated with the expected number of trees. The concept of memorylessness in Poisson processes is highlighted, allowing for simplifications in calculating distances. There is also a clarification on interpreting the question regarding whether it pertains to the nearest neighbor or the average distance to all diseased trees. The conversation emphasizes the importance of precise definitions in statistical calculations.
Nick Jarvis
Messages
29
Reaction score
2
Hi

The question is about diseased trees in an area (Poisson process), and states that λ = 15 diseased trees in a km square. I need to calculate expected distance from a point in the square to a diseased tree.

Now I thought that this means that P(diseased tree = 0) ~ Po(15) = 3.059 x 10^-7

Or do I calculate this as 1/15 which is P(distance = 0) ~ Po(1/15) = 0.936, then (1 - 0.936) gives me the expected distance??

This is a question that I know should be so straightforward.

Cheers
 
Physics news on Phys.org
The Poisson process assigns a mean ## \lambda=Np ## to the process. In this case, we can select ## \lambda =15 ## if we want to work with an area of 1 km^2 and write the probability we find ## k ## diseased trees in that 1 km^2 area is ## P(k ) =e^{-\lambda} \lambda^k/k! ##.(The mean ## \bar{k} ## for this distribution is ## \bar{k}=\lambda ##). If we want to work with A=2 km^2, then ## \lambda ## is equal to 30. (## N ## is proportional to the selected area).## \\ ## If we want to work with an area such that we have a mean equal to 1 diseased tree, that means ## A_{single}=1/15 \, km^2 ## and ## \lambda =1 ## for this case. I believe a correct answer for the mean radius ## r_{single} ## to have one diseased tree would be ## A_{single}=\pi r_{single}^2 ##. There are probably more complicated ways of computing this that might be equally correct, but this is how I would solve it.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes Nick Jarvis and StoneTemplePython
Charles Link said:
The Poisson process assigns a mean ## \lambda=Np ## to the process. In this case, we can select ## \lambda =15 ## if we want to work with an area of 1 km^2 and write the probability we find ## k ## diseased trees in that 1 km^2 area is ## P(k ) =e^{-\lambda} \lambda^k/k! ##.(The mean ## \bar{k} ## for this distribution is ## \bar{k}=\lambda ##). If we want to work with A=2 km^2, then ## \lambda ## is equal to 30. (## N ## is proportional to the selected area).## \\ ## If we want to work with an area such that we have a mean equal to 1 diseased tree, that means ## A_{single}=1/15 \, km^2 ## and ## \lambda =1 ## for this case. I believe a correct answer for the mean radius ## r_{single} ## to have one diseased tree would be ## A_{single}=\pi r_{single}^2 ##. There are probably more complicated ways of computing this that might be equally correct, but this is how I would solve it.

I think this is basically right. I had a half typed response when you posted, with a much more complicated response asking for a first moment and second moment, which leads to variance, then square root that to get standard deviation which should be an upper bound on the distance (which I presume is standard Euclidean) and then...
- - - -
But as you point out, it's a lot simpler. The goal is find expected distance till next tree -- call it ##r##. Area of the associated circle is ##\pi r^2##.

##k * AreaOfThatCircle =## Expected Trees In Our Big Square.

- - - -
Poisson processes are memoryless, which makes them a lot easier to think about... memorylessness allows us to 'chop up' the circles, use fractional portions, and re-arrange the pieces up to any level of precision, such there is ultimately no 'dead space' left when we tile our square with them (or I suppose I should say that the 'dead space' gets arbitrarily close to zero).

This is quite different than when, say, you put golf balls in a box (in ##\mathbb R^3##) or look at the maximal number of balls on a billiards table (##\mathbb R^2##). Hence ##k## is the amount of circles that fit in that square, inclusive of our ability to chop them up however we want, and use less than whole portions. So it becomes a geometry problem of making sure the "surface areas" match, and if we know the first moment, i.e. expected number of trees in our square, we can solve for ##r##.
- - - -
For what it's worth, I think we can justify the above entirely with linearity of expectations and memorylessness of Poisson processes. However, I can't quite shake the feeling that using Wald's Equality makes it cleaner.
- - - -
edit:

one technical nit: the OP asks of distance from a point to a diseased tree. This could be interpreted as meaning the minimal distance, on average, from a point to a diseased tree (i.e. a nearest neighbor). It could also be interpreted in terms of averaging the distance to all diseased trees, from that point. I think the question is how far is the nearest neighbor on average, but strictly speaking the language is too loose to tell. (In a manner similar to the Inspection Paradox, the answer depends quite a bit on what you exactly want to calculate.) There are even more subtleties than usual here since we're dealing in higher dimensions than 1-d.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes Nick Jarvis and Charles Link
Apologies for the lateness. Many thanks for your replies. May need to speak to tutor as we have not covered area at all!

Cheers
 
  • Like
Likes Charles Link
Nick Jarvis said:
Apologies for the lateness. Many thanks for your replies. May need to speak to tutor as we have not covered area at all!

Cheers
No problemif you missed less than 1/15th around a tree, not likely any trees in there ##Km^2 ## ;).
 
I was reading documentation about the soundness and completeness of logic formal systems. Consider the following $$\vdash_S \phi$$ where ##S## is the proof-system making part the formal system and ##\phi## is a wff (well formed formula) of the formal language. Note the blank on left of the turnstile symbol ##\vdash_S##, as far as I can tell it actually represents the empty set. So what does it mean ? I guess it actually means ##\phi## is a theorem of the formal system, i.e. there is a...
Back
Top