Position-time equation from force-position equation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving a position-time equation from a force-position equation, specifically in the context of one-dimensional motion. Participants explore the relationship between force, velocity, and position, and the methods for obtaining a position-time equation from given force expressions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes an attempt to derive a position-time equation starting from a force equation expressed in terms of position, using work and kinetic energy to obtain a velocity equation.
  • Another participant points out that the initial equations presented are dimensionally incorrect and explains that the dot notation signifies a time derivative, indicating velocity.
  • There is a question about whether the velocity equation must include a time variable, with a participant clarifying that it does not need to.
  • One participant inquires if it is possible to derive the position-time equation directly from an acceleration equation without first obtaining a velocity equation.
  • A later reply suggests that it is possible to solve the second-order linear differential equation directly, providing an example of the simple harmonic oscillator as a case where an analytical solution can be found.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of deriving a velocity equation before obtaining a position-time equation. There is no consensus on the best approach to take, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the methods and correctness of the initial equations presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants note issues with dimensional correctness in the initial equations, but the specific assumptions or definitions leading to these issues are not fully explored. The discussion also highlights the dependence on the form of the force or acceleration equations used.

Droctagonopus
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I've been trying to obtain an equation of position in terms of time given force in terms of position. I've tried and I think I've managed to obtain an equation of velocity in terms of position using work and kinetic energy but I haven't managed the position time equation.

This is how I got velocity equation:
A point mass m is at starting position x=0 with starting velocity v_0

F=x+1
W=\int_0^x {(x+1)dx}=\frac{x^2+2x}2
\frac 1 2 m(v^2-{v_0}^2)=\frac{x^2+2x}2
v=\sqrt{\frac{x^2+2x}m+{v_0}^2}

How do I get a position-time equation? And how do I use a starting position other than x = 0?
 
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Well just note that your equations are horribly dimensionally incorrect. But other than that, if you have ##\dot{x} = f(x)## then ##t = \int _{0}^{x} \frac{1}{f(x)}dx## and from there you just have to integrate (in principle) and invert the equation (in principle) to get ##x(t)## explicitly.
 
Sorry I forgot to mention that I was working in one dimension. And what does the dot above the x signify?
 
When I said dimensionally incorrect I meant that your units are all wrong. The dot is a time derivative so ##v = \dot{x}##.
 
By inverting the equation, do you mean getting an equation of x in terms of t?
 
Yep.
 
But does the velocity equation have to have a time variable in it? And also, is it possible to do this from an acceleration equation?
 
No the velocity equation doesn't have to have a time variable. As I said, you have ##\frac{\mathrm{d} x}{\mathrm{d} t} = f(x)## hence you can solve for ##t(x)## just by solving the differential equation (in principle). You can then get ##x(t)## by inverting the equation (again in principle). I don't know what you mean by your second question; isn't that exactly what you did here? You started with the force as a function of position, which is also acceleration as a function of position, and you used the work-energy theorem to get an equation for the velocity in terms of position.
 
I mean, is there was a way to do it without going through the process of obtaining a velocity equation?
 
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Well sure you could directly solve the second order linear differential equation in principle. The simplest example is the simple harmonic oscillator wherein you have ##\ddot{x} = f(x) = -\omega^{2} x##. You can solve this analytically immediately and obtain ##x(t) = A\cos\omega t + B\sin\omega t##.
 

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