Positive integral for two functions

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mathematical statement regarding the integral of the product of two functions, specifically whether \(\int_{-\infty}^{+\infty} f(x) g(x) \ge 0\) holds under certain conditions. Participants explore the implications of this statement in the context of expectation values and inner products, examining the conditions under which the inequality may or may not be true.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions if \(\int_{-\infty}^{+\infty} f(x) g(x) \ge 0\) is true given that \(f(x) \ge 0\) and \(0 < \int_{-\infty}^{+\infty} g(x) < \infty\), seeking mathematical justification.
  • Another participant suggests that if \(f(x)\) is zero where \(g(x)\) is positive, it could serve as a counterexample to the statement.
  • There is a clarification that if \(f(x) = 0\), the equality holds, but this is challenged by another participant who states that \(f(x)\) could be zero where \(g(x)\) is positive and greater than zero where \(g(x)\) is negative.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the sufficiency of the initial statements regarding the integral.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the validity of the integral statement, with multiple viewpoints and counterexamples being proposed, indicating ongoing debate and uncertainty.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the dependence on the specific behaviors of the functions \(f(x)\) and \(g(x)\), and the implications of their values across different domains, which remain unresolved.

ChrisVer
Science Advisor
Messages
3,372
Reaction score
465
I am feeling stupid today...so:
Is the following statement true?

[itex]\int_{-\infty}^{+\infty} f(x) g(x) \ge 0[/itex]
if [itex]f(x) \ge 0[/itex] and [itex]0< \int_{-\infty}^{+\infty} g(x) < \infty[/itex] (integral converges)?

If yes, then how could I show that? (It's not a homework) I am trying to understand how the expectation value [itex]E[XY] = <X,Y>[/itex] for two variables [itex]X,Y[/itex] can indeed be that inner product. Which would need that [itex]<X,X>=E[X^2] \ge 0 \Rightarrow \int_{-\infty}^{+\infty} x^2 g(x) dx \ge 0[/itex]. Here [itex]f(x)=x^2 >0[/itex] and [itex]\int g(x) = 1[/itex] (normalized pdf). Obviously it's true since all the negative values of the [itex]X[/itex] will become positive and so their expectation should be positive, but I'm trying to look in it mathematically.
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
ChrisVer said:
I am feeling stupid today...so:
Is the following statement true?

[itex]\int_{-\infty}^{+\infty} f(x) g(x) \ge 0[/itex]
if [itex]f(x) \ge 0[/itex] and [itex]0< \int_{-\infty}^{+\infty} g(x) < \infty[/itex] (integral converges)?

If yes, then how could I show that? (It's not a homework) I am trying to understand how the expectation value [itex]E[XY] = <X,Y>[/itex] for two variables [itex]X,Y[/itex] can indeed be that inner product. Which would need that [itex]<X,X>=E[X^2] \ge 0 \Rightarrow \int_{-\infty}^{+\infty} x^2 g(x) dx \ge 0[/itex]. Here [itex]f(x)=x^2 >0[/itex] and [itex]\int g(x) = 1[/itex] (normalized pdf). Obviously it's true since all the negative values of the [itex]X[/itex] will become positive and so their expectation should be positive, but I'm trying to look in it mathematically.

Suppose f(x) is 0 where g(x) is +ve. Can you get a counterexample from that?
 
If [itex]f(x)=0[/itex] then the equal sign holds...?
 
ChrisVer said:
If [itex]f(x)=0[/itex] then the equal sign holds...?

I don't think you understood my idea. f(x) = 0 where g(x) is +ve and f(x) > 0 where g(x) is -ve.

It's not that hard to see.
 
I see... those statements are not sufficient then... :/
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K