Possibility of igniting Jupiter

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  • #26
russ_watters
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Welcome to PF. Please note, first impressions are important. You've shown quite a bit of anti-science attitude in a first post on a science forum. Not a good idea to start that way.
i have some questions before i dispute the fact of a possible ignition of jupiter.
Um, ok...sounds like you already have some preconceptions - not a good way to open up the discussion.
1) jupiter is 90% gas? is this a known fact or is this the case of scientific speculation based on measuring methods?
As said, your constraint makes little sense because measurements are facts. Everything we know is based on measurements. But let me just explain how we know:

Jupiter's diameter and mass can be directly measured. Based on these measurements, the calculated specific gravity of Jupiter is 1.3, which is 1/4 that of earth and a little less than the density of aluminum and a little more than water. That precludes Jupiter from being made of any but a handful of very light materials. Next, using known gas laws, a pressure and density gradient can be calculated to predict what the mass of a "gas giant" should be - and Jupiter's mass and volume fit very well with those predictions if it is made mostly of hydrogen and helium.
cus over recent years i have seen a lot of these peoples so called guestimates proved to be wrong!
Unlikely, or you're cherry-picking. A useless comment.
2) what is the pressure level at the centre of jupiters core? does anybody on earth know this?
As said, it can relatively easily be calculated using known gas laws. You can learn the requested facts from the wiki. It's ironic that you've come here with such arrogant ignorance that you haven't even checked the wiki to learn easy to find facts! It's almost like you are against learning because you may accidentally learn something you don't wan to believe!
3) The great red spot is a storm front right? could somebody please explain to me how a storm can rage with no solid ground bellow it?
There is nothing about a storm that implies that ground needs to be below it. Why do you think there needs to be?
4) infact does anybody know for sure what is bellow jupiters gaseous layers?
What does "for sure" mean? We have theories that strongly match evidence. That's all science can provide.

A probe was sent about 140km into Jupiter's atmosphere, measuring an atmospheric pressure of 24 bar. That's as far as we can know for certain. All else is theory.
nuclear fusion, we as humans are barely scratching the surface, to think we know it all about nuclear fusion cus we can make a tiny little bomb in comparison to a star or any other heavenly body is just ridiculous.
No. Fusion is fusion. The reaction is the same whether it happens in a bomb or a star. By definition, if the reaction is different, it isn't fusion. You're just arguing based on your own ignorance here.
i know im boxing outside the so called acceptable known parameters of physic's but we barely know anything about red dwarfs and the size of these objects and how they came to be is still in theoretical stages, so i wouldn't quite yet dispute the fact that jupiter can not ignite
No, you're really just arguing based on your own ignorance. You're saying 'I don't know what is known about Jupiter/fusion/etc therefore nothing is known'. That's obviously absurd. Educate yourself. Don't use your own ignorance as a basis for an assumption that scientists are ignorant.
 
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  • #27
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what about titan? I heard that if there was just a little free oxygen in Titans atmosphere, it would be possible to light its Natural Gas seas with a single match
Lots of natural gas, no oxygen. Natural gas does not ignite on it's own. Once the "very little oxygen" was consumed the combustion would stop.
 
  • #28
Chronos
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A little oxygen on titan would quickly oxidize a little amount of methane under the right conditions - er, what thecow said. Kind of reminds me of tiny black hole fantasies.
 
  • #29
Why is precision targeting of high speed proton beams at protons not possible, to make them fuse? Why cannot light push the protons of the beam as light is probably the easiest force to concentrate and produce? Why is thermal motion the only way to get it done?

We could then have an automobile running on its own thermonuclear generation, and many other things. End to Green House Gases, Global Warming, etc.

Infinite availability of usable energy could make it feasible to synthesis all material needs of mankind. Separate elements from available rocks and synthesise required goods.

Less nedd for environ unfriendly mining techniques.
 
  • #30
Required quantity could be broken off the Sun and pushed towards Earth, supplying concentrated pollution free energy. A precision targetted very high speed satellite tangentially hitting Sun could slice off a small piece.

Concentrators and reflectors could send strong Sunlight beams to selected spots of Earth, to be converted to usable energy. These could be positioned where their bodies survive the temperature, and still collect significant energy.

Solar energy could be concentrated and beamed to Earth from Moon.

Because of infinite source, no need for high efficiency at that stage. Therefore low technology devices could work.

Imagine one million solar concentrators beaming to Earth from space, each about a square kilometer in collection area.

Even beaming into oceans could partly help.
 
  • #31
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The combustible seas of titan are mostly methane right? What's the estimated temperature of those seas? If you can't raise the temperature high enough, you aren't going to have the energy to break apart existing bonds. I'm thinking even if you had an arbitrary unit of methane and oxygen to burn, it wouldn't release enough energy to ignite the next unit, and the reaction of would die. Anyone with a chem book should be able to crunch the numbers and check this.
From what i can see the surface temperature of Titan is ~94K. The energy typically released by a methane combustion is ~882kJ/mol. i have also found the heat capacity of methane to be 35.69kJ/(mol K). The temperature required to sustain combustion is 580℃(853K) therefore if one reaction were to pass its energy to the next in perfect order, i calculate that you need to increase the temperature by 759℃ in order to do this we need 27088kJ/mol of energy. This energy is much larger than the energy released by the combustion, therefore it is safe to believe that a self sustaining combustion of methane on the surface of Titan would be impossible, the energy need to bring the methane to combustion point is far to great to self-sustain.

I used constants applied at 1ATM, although the pressure on Titan is 1.44ATM, in this case i believe that even with a slight pressure difference, the combustion is still not able to sustain itself, but i might be wrong.

To answer the question, the reaction would ignite the next particle, depending on what your initial energy supply is, but the reaction would eventually die out.
 
  • #32
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Why do we say "burn"? You can't get a planetery mass to burn unless is hass more then 50 %of its mass as oxygen.
"Burn" in the fusion sense. A fusion burn is a self-sustaining fusion reaction, which Jupiter can't sustain with its current mass or composition. With deuterium at 1 in 150 abundance (instead of its normal 1 in 6500) a fusion burn could be triggered by a sufficiently energetic triggering input, but deuterium burning rapidly becomes explosive and the planet would probably blow off its outer layers or even disrupt totally. Fortunately concentrated deuterium is hard to come by in our solar system. Inside brown dwarfs above 13 Jupiter masses the core is hot enough for a sustained burn even at the lower concentration, but it's quickly used up in about 50 million years. For comparison hydrogen fusion in the lowest mass stars can last 10 trillion years.
 

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