Pressure vs speed in an immersed object

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mathematical relationship between pressure and speed for a fully immersed object in a steady moving fluid. Participants explore concepts from fluid dynamics and granular flow, comparing their findings with established theories like Bernoulli's equation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the meaning of "pressure of a point of the object" and requests clarification, suggesting a diagram might help.
  • Another participant clarifies that "pressure of a point" refers to the pressure over the surface of the object, such as a sphere or plate.
  • It is proposed that if viscosity effects are ignored and the flow is steady, Bernoulli's equation can be applied, leading to a relationship where pressure varies with the square of the velocity.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the applicability of Bernoulli's equation to granular flows and questions the existence of an exponential relationship in this context.
  • A later reply indicates that a quadratic model fits the data well, aligning with Bernoulli's predictions, while also questioning the linearity of pressure with speed based on another formula shared.
  • Participants discuss the implications of pressure being proportional to fluid density and the square of the speed, reflecting on the differences with Bernoulli's equation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between pressure and speed, with some supporting the quadratic relationship suggested by Bernoulli's equation, while others explore the possibility of linear or exponential relationships, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about viscosity and flow conditions, as well as the specific context of granular materials versus traditional fluid dynamics.

serbring
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Hi all,

In case of a fully immersed and standing object (i.e. a plate or sphere) in a steady moving fluid (i.e. water or oil), what is the type of the mathematical relationship between the pressure of a point of the object? Might exponential be right? I need this information because I measured the pressure on an moving plate inside a granular material (particles are in order of a hundred thousandth of the smallest size of the plate) and I found out that the relationship is close to be exponential so I want to make a comparison with fluid dynamics because the field is much more studied.
Hopefully I have well stated the question, if not please give the details you need.

Thanks
 
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Yeah I'm not following you exactly. What do you mean by "pressure of a point of the object"? Can you maybe draw a picture of what you are doing?
 
Look at this picture
images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ3zbVDvJ_VQ9_D8id7Npy_2XOMu-esh9zTPYBoUStopy83wMdJ2Q.jpg


For pressure on point, I meant the pressure over the surface of the sphere or a plate. In case of the shpere it may be described by \theta
 
If you ignore the effects of viscosity, and assuming the flow is steady, then the relationship follows Bernoulli's equation:
p_1 + \dfrac{1}{2}\rho v_1^2 = p_2 + \dfrac{1}{2}\rho v_2^2.
In this case, let the 1 conditions be the free stream (call the pressure ##p_{fs}## and velocity ##U##) and the 2 conditions be against the surface of the body, then the pressure is going to be
p = p_{fs} + \dfrac{1}{2}\rho\left( U^2 - v^2 \right).

What exactly those pressures will be depends on the velocity distribution. The pressure will vary with the square of the velocity, though. I am not familiar enough with granular flows to be able to tell you if there is some exponential relationship in those cases.
 
Thanks for your reply. I didn't know, Bernoulli's equation is valid also for external fluid flows. I found out also this formula: http://s12.postimg.org/dbr17jyt9/Immagine.png
If that it is true the pressure is linear with the speed, right? That it is different from what it is predicted by Bernoulli's equation, right?

Actually, looking more into the data, a quadratic model can fit rather well the data as it is predicted by Bernoulli's equation.
 
serbring said:
If that it is true the pressure is linear with the speed, right? That it is different from what it is predicted by Bernoulli's equation, right?
Actually, looking more into the data, a quadratic model can fit rather well the data as it is predicted by Bernoulli's equation.
Pressure is proportion to fluid density multiplied by the square of the speed.
 

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