Probability of a fluctuation/entropy decrease

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter shimzz5
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    decrease Probability
Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the probability of fluctuations and entropy decrease in gas systems at room temperature or higher. Two contrasting formulas are presented: one using -ΔS and the other incorporating the Boltzmann factor with the expression -M/T + S. The contradiction arises in reconciling the microcanonical and canonical ensembles, particularly regarding the observation of fluctuations into low entropy states. The references provided, including arXiv papers 1108.0417 and 1110.4630, offer further insights into these formulations.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of thermodynamic concepts, specifically entropy (S) and temperature (T).
  • Familiarity with statistical mechanics, including microcanonical and canonical ensembles.
  • Knowledge of the Boltzmann factor and its application in probability calculations.
  • Basic grasp of fluctuation theory in thermodynamic systems.
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the derivation and implications of the Boltzmann factor in statistical mechanics.
  • Examine the differences between microcanonical and canonical ensembles in detail.
  • Research fluctuation theory and its relevance to entropy changes in thermodynamic systems.
  • Review the provided arXiv papers (1108.0417 and 1110.4630) for deeper insights into the discussed formulas.
USEFUL FOR

Physicists, thermodynamic researchers, and students studying statistical mechanics who seek to understand the complexities of entropy fluctuations and their probabilities in gas systems.

shimzz5
Messages
4
Reaction score
1
Suppose we have a gas in the room at some temperature which is room temperature or higher.

In some references the probability is given by -ΔS, which is indeed a tiny number and makes sense.

However, in other references the probability is given by the Boltzmann factor plus the number of microstates -M/T + S, where T is the temparature of the gas and S the entropy of the fluctuated object. How to resolve this contradiction (between the microcanonical and canonical ensemble)? Shouldn't the entropy factor cancel the -M/T factor for ordinary temperatures? It seems that in the second equation (which corresponds to the free energy) the fluctuations are probable even now because the temperature is pretty high? Why don't we observe random fluctuations into low entropy states according to the second formula?

Sorry for my bad english, thanks.
 
Science news on Phys.org
shimzz5 said:
In some references the probability is given by ...

However, in other references the probability is given by
Could you provide a link to these references? The context may help.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
3K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
3K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
6K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 39 ·
2
Replies
39
Views
7K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
3K