Problem in apparent contradiction in Euler's Identity?

AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on a perceived contradiction in Euler's Identity, specifically when setting θ = 2π and applying the natural logarithm. The confusion arises from the multi-valued nature of the logarithm in complex analysis, where ln(z) can yield different values depending on the argument. It is clarified that while e^(2πi) equals 1, the logarithm must account for its multi-valued characteristic, leading to ln(e^(2πi)) not equating to 2πi. The conclusion emphasizes that the arithmetic involving complex numbers, particularly with i, cannot be treated the same way as with real numbers, preventing erroneous conclusions. Understanding these nuances is crucial to resolving the apparent contradiction in Euler's Identity.
cwbullivant
Messages
60
Reaction score
0
I've worked with Euler's Identity for physics applications quite a few times, but ran into a "proof" of a contradiction in it, which I can't seem to find a flaw in (the only time I've ever had to do any proofs was in high school). I've derived Euler's equation in two different ways in past classes, so I know it works, but I'm at a bit of a loss here.

## e^{i\theta} = cos{\theta} + isin{\theta} ##

Set ##\theta = 2\pi ##

## e^{2\pi i} = cos{2\pi} + isin{2\pi} ##

## e^{2\pi i} = 1 ##

Take the natural log:

## ln{e^{2\pi i}} = ln{1} ##

## 2\pi i = 0 ##

## i = sqrt{-1} = 0 ##

## -1 = 0 ##

I think the problem was in using the natural log up there, but I'm not positive.
 
Mathematics news on Phys.org
in general we cannot conclude arguments are equal from the fact function values are
$$\require{cancel}\mathrm{f}(x)=\mathrm{f}(y)\cancel\implies x=y\\
\text{for example another related common error}\\
(-1)^2=1^2\cancel\implies -1=1
$$
 
The logarithm of a complex number is usually defined such that it gives you ##\phi## where ##-\pi \lt \phi \le \pi##. So using this definition, ##\ln e^{2\pi i}=0## and not ##2\pi i##. You have assumed that taking the logarithm simply gives you the exponent you had in the beginning, but this is untrue. Using complex numbers, there is no such general function as "getting the exponent", like there is not a general function of getting ##x## back from ##x^2##. One could also say that ##(-1)^2=1^2## therefore ##-1=1##, but this is wrong.

You are basically saying that ##e^{0}=e^{2\pi i}=e^{4\pi i}=e^{6\pi i}## and therefore ##0=2 \pi i= 4 \pi i=6 \pi i## and so on, but this is untrue. Because all the exponents give the same answer, how should the logarithm function know which exponent you want or which one you had at the beginning? It cannot know that, therefore it is defined to give ##-\pi \lt \phi \le \pi## to make it consistent and the ##2 \pi i## value you got from it is false (using the common definition).
 
  • Like
Likes FactChecker
cwbullivant said:
I've worked with Euler's Identity for physics applications quite a few times, but ran into a "proof" of a contradiction in it, which I can't seem to find a flaw in (the only time I've ever had to do any proofs was in high school). I've derived Euler's equation in two different ways in past classes, so I know it works, but I'm at a bit of a loss here.

## e^{i\theta} = cos{\theta} + isin{\theta} ##

Set ##\theta = 2\pi ##

## e^{2\pi i} = cos{2\pi} + isin{2\pi} ##

## e^{2\pi i} = 1 ##

Take the natural log:

## ln{e^{2\pi i}} = ln{1} ##

## 2\pi i = 0 ##

## i = sqrt{-1} = 0 ##

## -1 = 0 ##

I think the problem was in using the natural log up there, but I'm not positive.

The problem is that ln(z) is multi-valued, like many complex functions.

If z = x + iy = r e , then ln (z) = ln (r) + iθ = ln |z| + i Arg (z)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_logarithm

The 'proof' you listed doesn't seem to account for the fact that the exponential representation of a complex number is not unique.
 
SteamKing said:
The problem is that ln(z) is multi-valued, like many complex functions.

If z = x + iy = r e , then ln (z) = ln (r) + iθ = ln |z| + i Arg (z)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_logarithm

The 'proof' you listed doesn't seem to account for the fact that the exponential representation of a complex number is not unique.

Working with that, would it be:

## z = e^{2\pi i}, r = 1 ##

So ## |z| = e^{2\pi i}e^{-2\pi i} = e^{2\pi i - 2\pi i} = e^{0} = 1 ##

Then ## Ln{(e^{2\pi i})} = ln{|z|} + i Arg(z) = ln{1} + 2\pi i = 2\pi i ##

Which doesn't seem to be any help, assuming it's actually possible to equate ## Ln{|z|} = ln(1) ## at all. I'm guessing this is why chingel above mentioned a domain restriction.

I took a math methods class last semester, and somehow managed to forget the section on complex variables altogether. I got a similar formula from my notes there:

## Ln{|z|} = ln{|z|} + i({\theta + 2\pi k}) ##, where the case k = 0 is called the principle logarithm. The notes don't say anything about a domain restriction, so I'm guessing this formulation is the "Riemann surface" method. That makes it pretty obvious that a complex logarithm isn't single-valued. Since it's multi-valued, and ## ln 1 ## is single valued, can we simply not equate the natural log of the complex number with ln(1) at all? This doesn't seem quite right either, as I can imagine z = 1 + i(0), and do:

## Ln(1) = ln(1) + i(0 + 2\pi k) ##
 
Yes, just as e2πi = 1, so too can one say that e2kπi = 1, for k = 1, 2, 3, etc.

If i2 ≡ -1, we can't conclude that because e2πi = 1 and log (e2πi) = 2πi = log (1) = 0, which would lead to the contradiction that i2 = 02 = 0, which it clearly is not, rather than i2 = -1.

Anytime i pops up, you can't handle the arithmetic the same as you do with real numbers.
 
Insights auto threads is broken atm, so I'm manually creating these for new Insight articles. In Dirac’s Principles of Quantum Mechanics published in 1930 he introduced a “convenient notation” he referred to as a “delta function” which he treated as a continuum analog to the discrete Kronecker delta. The Kronecker delta is simply the indexed components of the identity operator in matrix algebra Source: https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/what-exactly-is-diracs-delta-function/ by...
Suppose ,instead of the usual x,y coordinate system with an I basis vector along the x -axis and a corresponding j basis vector along the y-axis we instead have a different pair of basis vectors ,call them e and f along their respective axes. I have seen that this is an important subject in maths My question is what physical applications does such a model apply to? I am asking here because I have devoted quite a lot of time in the past to understanding convectors and the dual...
Thread 'Imaginary Pythagoras'
I posted this in the Lame Math thread, but it's got me thinking. Is there any validity to this? Or is it really just a mathematical trick? Naively, I see that i2 + plus 12 does equal zero2. But does this have a meaning? I know one can treat the imaginary number line as just another axis like the reals, but does that mean this does represent a triangle in the complex plane with a hypotenuse of length zero? Ibix offered a rendering of the diagram using what I assume is matrix* notation...
Back
Top