Problem understanding the differential form of the circulation law

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the differential form of the circulation law, specifically the curl of a vector field. Participants explore the implications of certain mathematical conditions related to the curl and its components, as well as the definitions involved in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the conclusion that ∇×F = 0 can be drawn from the conditions n.(∇×F) = 0 for n = i, j, k, suggesting that it only implies specific equalities of the partial derivatives.
  • Another participant asserts that the conditions stated are equivalent to ∇×F = 0, providing a generalization that if n.V = 0 for n = i, j, k, then V must be 0.
  • A later reply emphasizes the definition of the curl component in terms of a limit involving a closed loop and the area of that loop, suggesting a deeper exploration of the concept.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the conditions imply that the curl is zero, indicating a lack of consensus on this point.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes various interpretations of mathematical definitions and conditions, with some assumptions about the implications of the curl's properties remaining unresolved.

havarija
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I've encountered a problem in learning about the curl of a vector field.
(My learning material is the "Div, Grad, Curl and all that" from H.M. Shey.)


Introduction to problem:

The curl of a field F is defined as:
∇×F = i (∂Fz/∂y - ∂Fy/∂z) + j(∂Fx/∂z - ∂Fx/∂x) + k(∂Fy/∂x - ∂Fx/∂y)

He claims the following:
If we take:
n.(∇xF) for n = i, j, k
and they all equal 0 that we can conclude that ∇xF = 0 generally.

Is it not that we can only conclude that:
∂Fz/∂y = ∂Fy/∂z
∂Fx/∂z = ∂Fx/∂x and
∂Fy/∂x = ∂Fx/∂y

Or does this conclusion imply the following somehow?

Thanks .)
 
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welcome to pf!

hi havarija! welcome to pf! :smile:

∂Fz/∂y = ∂Fy/∂z
∂Fx/∂z = ∂Fx/∂x and
∂Fy/∂x = ∂Fx/∂y

is the same as ∇xF = 0 :wink:

(and, for any vector V, if n.V = 0 for n = i, j, k then V must be 0 !)
 


Now it seems like a ridiculous question :D

Silly me. But now at least I joined the forum :)
 
Welcome! I love ridiculous questions- I can actually answer some of them!
 
havarija said:
The curl of a field F is defined as:
∇×F = i (∂Fz/∂y - ∂Fy/∂z) + j(∂Fx/∂z - ∂Fx/∂x) + k(∂Fy/∂x - ∂Fx/∂y)

if youre reviewing it may be helpful to consider the following definition of curl component:

[tex]curlF\cdot u=\lim_{A(C)\to0}\frac{1}{A(C)} \oint_C F\cdot dr[/tex] where C is a closed loop, A(C) is the area of the loop, vector field F and unit vector u. this is the definition of the u-component of curl.
 

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