Project: Ducted Fans - Feasibility & Suggestions

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the feasibility of a project involving ducted fans for a VTOL (Vertical Take-Off and Landing) aircraft. Participants explore the requirements for thrust, battery power, and the selection of appropriate components, including fans and motors. The conversation includes considerations of design, efficiency, and the specific needs of the project.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that producing 40 N of thrust from each of the four ducted fans is feasible and mentions the potential cost of around $1,000 for the project.
  • Another participant questions the need for four ducted fans, proposing that a tube and air compressor might be more effective for lifting the vehicle.
  • Some participants discuss the distinction between hovercraft and VTOL aircraft, indicating that the requirements for thrust differ significantly between the two types of vehicles.
  • There is a suggestion that ducted fans may not be the best choice for a VTOL due to efficiency concerns, advocating for larger rotors instead.
  • One participant emphasizes that the fans need to create sufficient pressure within the skirt of a hovercraft, rather than needing to lift the entire weight of the craft.
  • Another participant expresses uncertainty about how to determine the proper equipment needed for the project, seeking advice on fans, motors, batteries, and speed control.
  • There is mention of the advanced technology available in electric RC airplanes and helicopters, suggesting that hobby shops and magazines could provide useful information.
  • One participant notes the potential need to build custom ducted fan units, as existing options may not meet the thrust requirements.
  • A later reply clarifies that the thrust requirement should account for both lift and maneuvering needs.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing opinions on the feasibility and appropriateness of using ducted fans for a VTOL aircraft. Some believe it is a viable option, while others argue for alternative designs. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach and equipment needed.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not reached a consensus on the optimal design or components for the project. There are varying assumptions about the thrust requirements and the effectiveness of ducted fans versus other propulsion methods.

JD88
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I am working on a project that requires 4 ducted fans, each producing approximately 40 N of thrust for approximately 10 minutes using battery power.

Is this feasible? Any suggestions about which fan and battery I should use if it is feasible?

Thanks
 
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That's very do-able. As for finding a ducted fan, you're on your own on that one. I don't recall offhand any RC ducts. The propeller is probably going to be around 8-10". You're also looking at, I want to say, 4-6cell LiPo batteries. This isn't going to be cheap...probably around 1k for everything.
 
What other requirements do you have?
 
The fans are going to be used for a hover craft. So the 4 fans producing 40N of thrust each should balance out the weight of the vehicle. Additional thrust will be needed for movement. I pretty new to this sort of thing so I am not sure how to determine what fan, motor and batterie I will need.
 
While it's not a really effective means of propulsion, remember that if your lift fan is more powerful than is needed for levitation, you can simply vent excess air from the rear of the skirt for thrust. That can save you a few bucks, but you won't have great performance.
 
If you are building a hovercraft that weighs 9 pounds, you do not need 9 pounds of thrust for it to work. If you are talking about using thrust to weight ratios equal to or greater than one you are looking at making a vertical take off aircraft.

In order to make a hovercraft you simply need a fan that will create a pressure difference equal or greater to the pressure in the skirt with enough flow rate to keep up with air leaks. Think of a hovercraft as sort of a hydraulic jack. The fan doesn't need to be able to lift the aircraft, it only needs to create enough pressure inside of the skirt that the craft can be lifted. Understand?

The project is certainly doable. What's your budget?
 
Sorry, hover craft was a poor choice of words. What I am making is more of a VTOL aircraft.
 
Whoa! Whole different story. Gotta think on it for a bit.
 
JD88 said:
I am working on a project that requires 4 ducted fans, each producing approximately 40 N of thrust for approximately 10 minutes using battery power.

Is this feasible? Any suggestions about which fan and battery I should use if it is feasible?

Thanks

i think there is no need for the 4 fans ducting in the craft.
it required tube and air compressor to lift your vehicle
a fan for changing the direction's
 
  • #10
If you're looking to make a VTOL, then ducted fans are not a good choice. In the case of a VTOL, efficiency is proportional to fan/rotor diameter. Because of this, you will want to use large rotors instead of ducted fans. This is why helicopters have large rotors instead of small ones. If you decide to go with ducted fans for what ever reason then be prepared to spend some serious cash on motors, fans, and batteries.
 
  • #11
I will most likely be using ducted fans, they are an important part of the project I am working on. What would be the best way to go about determining the proper equipment I need. Fan, motor, battery, speed control.

Does anyone have experience in this sort of thing, I unfortunately don't have much.
 
  • #12
Electric RC airplanes have this stuff in everything now. The technology is really pretty impressive. RC helicopters have 3 axis gyros as well. A little time at a hobby shop and some RC magazines and you'll get all the beginning info you'll need. The sizing and what to get will fall out in your design.
 
  • #13
FredGarvin said:
RC helicopters have 3 axis gyros as well.

Most RC helis only have only single axis gyros. The helis that have 3 axis gyros are flybarless where the flybar is removed from the head in order to increase efficiency, but this gets very expensive. It would be easier just to pick up a generic INU and program in this case since most RC heli INUs have built in mixing for controlling the cyclic.

You will probably have to build your own ducted fan units. I have never seen an RC plane ducted fan unit with more than 5 lbf of thrust. Does the total 160 N of thrust include the thrust required for maneuvering or is that just to lift the weight of the craft?
 

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