Prove not integrable. Is this correct?

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In summary, the conversation discusses proving that the given function f:[0,1] is not integrable. The argument involves showing that the lower Darboux sum is equal to 0 and the upper Darboux sum is equal to x for a certain partition, leading to the conclusion that the upper integral does not equal the lower integral. The conversation also addresses the issue of finding the smallest irrational number greater than 0, which is necessary for the argument. Ultimately, it is determined that the upper sum cannot equal 0 and therefore, the function is not integrable.
  • #1
BustedBreaks
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Let f:[0,1] be defined as f(x)= 0 for x rational, f(x)=x for x irrational

Show f is not integrable

m=inf(f(x) on [Xi-1, Xi])
M=sup(f(x) on [Xi-1, Xi])

Okay so my argument goes like this:
I need to show that the Upper integral of f does not equal the lower integral of f

Because rationals and irrationals are dense in R for any interval [a,b] of f,

m=0
M=x

therefore, for the partition X0=0, X1=1 the Lower Darboux sum = 0 and the Upper Darboux sum = x

therefore the sup{Lower Darboux sum}=0
and the inf{Upper Darboux sum} is not equal to 0, (it is the smallest irrational number greater than 0 technically right? although there is no smallest irrational greater than 0, right?)

therefore the Upper integral of f does not equal the lower integral of f

and therefore f is not integrable.

I think this is right, but I just want to make sure I didn't miss anything.

Thanks!
 
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  • #2
and the inf{Upper Darboux sum} is not equal to 0, (it is the smallest irrational number greater than 0 technically right? although there is no smallest irrational greater than 0, right?)

For your upper sum you said that M on an interval has to be greater than the smallest irrational inside the interval. When you break up [0,1] into tiny pieces you're essentially integrating the function x, so you expect to get as an upper sum 1/2

All you have to prove is that the upper sum can't give you 0; saying it has to be larger than the smallest irrational number greater than 0 is not good enough (since as yo usaid there is no such number, so that has no meaning)
 
  • #3
Office_Shredder said:
For your upper sum you said that M on an interval has to be greater than the smallest irrational inside the interval. When you break up [0,1] into tiny pieces you're essentially integrating the function x, so you expect to get as an upper sum 1/2

All you have to prove is that the upper sum can't give you 0; saying it has to be larger than the smallest irrational number greater than 0 is not good enough (since as yo usaid there is no such number, so that has no meaning)

Well, what I was trying to say was that the upper sum cannot equal 0 because for any interval [a,b] M will not be 0 because there is always an irrational greater than 0 no matter how small the partition [Xo, X1] gets. Because M will never be 0 the inf of the Upper Darboux Sums will never be 0 and thus the upper integral will never equal the lower integral, even though I haven't defined what the upper actually is...

I wasn't trying to say anything the smallest irrational number greater than 0, just that it couldn't be equal to 0 because there would always be an irrational greater than 0 making M on that interval greater than 0.
 

1. How do you prove that a function is not integrable?

To prove that a function is not integrable, you can use the Riemann Sum or the Lebesgue Integral method. Both methods involve finding a sequence of partitions of the function and calculating the sum of the areas of the rectangles formed by these partitions. If the limit of these sums does not exist, then the function is not integrable.

2. What does it mean for a function to be not integrable?

A function is not integrable if it does not have a finite integral value. This means that the area under the curve of the function cannot be calculated using traditional integration methods.

3. Can a function be not integrable at certain points but still be integrable overall?

Yes, a function can be not integrable at certain points but still have a finite integral value overall. This is known as an improper integral, where the function has a singularity or a discontinuity at a certain point but can be integrated using other methods.

4. Are there any other methods to prove a function is not integrable?

Yes, there are other methods such as the Cauchy Criterion and the Darboux Criterion, which involve checking if the function satisfies certain conditions. If these conditions are not met, then the function is not integrable.

5. Is it possible for a function to be not integrable in one type of integral but integrable in another?

Yes, it is possible for a function to be not integrable in one type of integral but integrable in another. For example, a function may not be integrable in the Riemann Integral, but it can be integrable in the Lebesgue Integral. This is because different methods have different criteria for integrability.

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