Prove $|P(a)-P(b)|<\dfrac{1}{2}$ for Algebra Challenge Function $P$

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving the inequality $|P(a)-P(b)|<\dfrac{1}{2}$ for a function $P$ defined on the interval $[0, 1]$ with specific boundary conditions and a Lipschitz-like condition. The scope includes mathematical reasoning and exploration of properties of the function $P$.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants reiterate the problem statement, emphasizing the need to prove $|P(a)-P(b)|<\dfrac{1}{2}$ given the conditions on $P$.
  • One participant questions whether the approach being discussed can generalize to all possible functions $P(x)$, indicating a concern about the applicability of the proposed methods.
  • Another participant suggests that the condition $|P(a) - P(b)|<|a - b|$ implies that $|P' (x)|< 1$ for all $x$ in $[0,1]$, leading to an integral argument that could support the inequality.
  • A different participant proposes a specific form for $P(x)$, suggesting that analyzing its derivative could help find maximum and minimum values over the interval.
  • There is a challenge regarding the interpretation of the integral argument, with one participant expressing confusion over how the conclusion $|b - a| < 1/2$ is derived.
  • Another participant provides a detailed breakdown of the relationship between $a$, $b$, and $k$, attempting to clarify the bounds on $|b - a|$ and its implications for $|P(b) - P(a)|$.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity and generalizability of the proposed methods and arguments. There is no consensus on the proof or the interpretations of the conditions set for $P$.

Contextual Notes

Some arguments rely on assumptions about the behavior of $P$ and its derivatives, which may not be universally applicable. The discussion includes unresolved mathematical steps and interpretations that could affect the conclusions drawn.

anemone
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Let $P$ be a function defined on $[0, 1]$ such that $P(0)=P(1)=1$ and $|P(a)-P(b)|<|a-b|$, for all $a\ne b$ in the interval $[0, 1]$.

Prove that $|P(a)-P(b)|<\dfrac{1}{2}$.
 
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anemone said:
Let $P$ be a function defined on $[0, 1]$ such that $P(0)=P(1)=1$ and $|P(a)-P(b)|<|a-b|$, for all $a\ne b$ in the interval $[0, 1]$.

Prove that $|P(a)-P(b)|<\dfrac{1}{2}$.
for simplicity , I will set :$P(x)=x(x-1)+1=(x-\dfrac{1}{2})^2+\dfrac {3}{4}$
then $max(P(a)-P(b))\leq 1-\dfrac {3}{4}<\dfrac {1}{2}$
take $a=1,b=\dfrac {1}{2}$
 
Albert said:
for simplicity , I will set :$P(x)=x(x-1)+1=(x-\dfrac{1}{2})^2+\dfrac {3}{4}$
then $max(P(a)-P(b))\leq 1-\dfrac {3}{4}<\dfrac {1}{2}$
take $a=1,b=\dfrac {1}{2}$
Are you simply demonstrating an example or is there some way this will generalize to all possible P(x)?

-Dan
 
anemone said:
Let $P$ be a function defined on $[0, 1]$ such that $P(0)=P(1)=1$ and $|P(a)-P(b)|<|a-b|$, for all $a\ne b$ in the interval $[0, 1]$.

Prove that $|P(a)-P(b)|<\dfrac{1}{2}$.

[sp]Because is $|P(a) - P (b)|<|a - b|$ for all $a \ne b$ in [0,1] is also $|P' (x)|< 1$ for all x in [0,1] . But is also $\int_{0}^{1} P' (x)\ d x = P(1) - P(0) = 0$ , so that for all a and b in [0,1] is $ |\int_{a}^{b} P'(x)\ d x| = |P(b) - P(a)| \le \frac{1}{2}$...[/sp]

Kind regards$\chi$ $\sigma$
 
topsquark said:
Are you simply demonstrating an example or is there some way this will generalize to all possible P(x)?

-Dan
In general you can set $P(x)=x^n(x-1)^n+1$
and then find its derivative to get $max(P(x))$ and $min(P(x))$
for $x\in [0,1]$
 
Last edited:
chisigma said:
[sp]Because is $|P(a) - P (b)|<|a - b|$ for all $a \ne b$ in [0,1] is also $|P' (x)|< 1$ for all x in [0,1] . But is also $\int_{0}^{1} P' (x)\ d x = P(1) - P(0) = 0$ , so that for all a and b in [0,1] is $ |\int_{a}^{b} P'(x)\ d x| = |P(b) - P(a)| \le \frac{1}{2}$...[/sp]

Kind regards$\chi$ $\sigma$
very clever solution !
but $ |P(b) - P(a)| =\dfrac {1}{2}$ should be excluded , for $a,b \in [0,1]$ and $a\neq b$
this is the same as using probability method:
$\dfrac { |P(b) - P(a)|}{1-0}<\dfrac { |b - a|}{1-0}<\dfrac {1}{2}$
 
chisigma said:
[sp]so that for all a and b in [0,1] is $ |\int_{a}^{b} P'(x)\ d x| = |P(b) - P(a)| \le \frac{1}{2}$...[/sp]
I'm sorry, [math]\chi ~ \sigma[/math], I can't see how you are getting |b - a| < 1/2 in the last step?

-Dan
 
topsquark said:
I'm sorry, [math]\chi ~ \sigma[/math], I can't see how you are getting |b - a| < 1/2 in the last step?

-Dan
let :$0\leq b=a\pm k\leq 1$

for : $a+k-(a-k)=2k\leq (1-0)=1$

or $k \leq \dfrac {1}{2}$

then : $|b - a| =|a\pm k -a| =|\pm k| \leq \dfrac {1}{2}$

$\therefore |P(b) -P(a)| <|b -a| \leq \dfrac {1}{2}$
 
Last edited:
Sorry for the late reply and thanks Albert for participating, and your explanations and also thanks to chisigma for your solution...

Solution of other:
We consider the following cases:
[TABLE="class: grid, width: 700"]
[TR]
[TD]Case I ($|a-b|\le \dfrac{1}{2}$):

If $|a-b|\le \dfrac{1}{2}$, then

$|P(a)-P(b)|<|a-b|\le\dfrac{1}{2}$, as desired.[/TD]
[TD]Case II ($|a-b|> \dfrac{1}{2}$):

By symmetry, we may assume $a>b$.

Then

$\begin{align*}|P(a)-P(b)|&=|P(a)-P(1)+P(0)-P(b)|\\&\le |P(a)-P(1)|+|P(0)-P(b)|\\&<|a-1|+|0-b|\\&=1-a+b-0\\&=1-(a-b)\\&<\dfrac{1}{2}\end{align*}$

as desired.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 

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