Proving M is a Subgroup of G: Tips & Help

  • Thread starter Thread starter nonaa
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Subgroup
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around proving that a set M, defined as M = {x ∈ G | x11 = e}, is a subgroup of a group G of order 22. Participants express difficulties in demonstrating that M satisfies the subgroup criteria, particularly closure under multiplication and the existence of inverses.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the need to show that if x, y are in M, then xy is also in M, and they explore the implications of the order of elements in M. There are questions about how to handle the non-abelian case when proving closure. Some participants suggest using the order of G and the prime factorization of 22 to analyze M further.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided guidance on how to approach the closure and inverse properties, while others are exploring the implications of the order of elements and subgroups. There is an ongoing exploration of whether M can have more than one subgroup of order 11, and participants are considering the structure of G in relation to M.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that proving M is a subgroup is essential before discussing its normality. There is a focus on the implications of the group order and the properties of elements within M.

nonaa
Messages
17
Reaction score
0
Given a group G of order 22 and [tex]M = \{x \in G | x^{11}=e\}[/tex]. Prove that M is a normal subgroup of G.I have troubles proving M is subgroup of G. If M was a subgroup, then I can show it is normal, but how to prove it's a subgroup?
I know I have to show it's closed under multiplication and opposite element, but cannot do this. May I receive some help?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
1. not precalculus.
2. Closure. Assume x, y in M. You are trying to prove that xy is in M. All you have to do is write what the two preceding statements MEAN, and then there is one intermediate step. Not too tricky.

3. Inverse. You know what the inverse of x (in M) is, right? Since this is an element of M, what else can you say about it (in G)?
 
The Chaz said:
1. not precalculus.
2. Closure. Assume x, y in M. You are trying to prove that xy is in M. All you have to do is write what the two preceding statements MEAN, and then there is one intermediate step. Not too tricky.

3. Inverse. You know what the inverse of x (in M) is, right? Since this is an element of M, what else can you say about it (in G)?


2. I have to prove that if x, y are from M, then (xy)11=e. If the group was abelian, it's easy - then (xy)11=x11.y11, but now (xy)11=xyxyxy...xy and don't know how to prove it's equal to e.

3. I'm not sure what's the term in English, but what I understand by the word "inverse" is such an element y, that if x is in G, then xy=yx=e.
In this problem, if x is in M, the order of x divides 11, so ord(x) = 1 or ord(x)=11.
x.x10=x11=e, so the inverse of x must be x10.
We have to show it's in M.
(x10)11 = (x11)10=e10=e
Is this right?
 
nonaa said:
2. I have to prove that if x, y are from M, then (xy)11=e. If the group was abelian, it's easy - then (xy)11=x11.y11, but now (xy)11=xyxyxy...xy and don't know how to prove it's equal to e.

You have to use what you know about the order of G. The prime factorization of 22 is (2)(11). Use this to show that M has a subgroup of order 11. Can it have more than one?
 
Last edited:
jbunniii said:
Use this to show that M has a subgroup of order 11.

But I cannot prove this, because I can't prove M is a group.
 
I think that was a typo. Prove that G has a single subgroup of order 11. This should allow you to identify precisely what the elements of order 11 are (and explain why they commute)
 
Yes, sorry for the confusion. I meant to say "show that G has a subgroup of order 11."
 
I proved that G has an element of order 11, but subgroup... :confused:
 
Think of e, x, x^2, x^3, ..., x^10

try to prove this is a subgroup
 
  • #10
willem2 said:
Think of e, x, x^2, x^3, ..., x^10

try to prove this is a subgroup

Here x is of order 11, right?
 
  • #11
nonaa said:
Here x is of order 11, right?

certainly. It's now easy to find out what (x^m)(x^n), (x^n)^-1 are and that to
prove they also are in the subgroup.
 
  • #12
Thank you :)
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K