Proving the relation using multivariable calculus

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SUMMARY

The discussion revolves around proving the relation $$\int f(\vec r)\ \nabla \cdot \vec A(\vec r) \, d \vec r = -\int \vec A(\vec r)\ \cdot \nabla f(\vec r)\,d\vec r$$ using multivariable calculus techniques, specifically integration by parts. Participants emphasize the importance of correctly applying the gradient and divergence operators in Cartesian coordinates, as well as the necessity of boundary conditions to ensure the vanishing of the uv term in the integration process. The conversation highlights common pitfalls in notation and conceptual understanding, particularly regarding the differentiation of multivariable functions.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of multivariable calculus concepts, specifically integration by parts.
  • Familiarity with vector calculus, including gradient (∇f) and divergence (∇⋅A) operators.
  • Knowledge of Cartesian coordinates and their application in vector fields.
  • Ability to work with triple integrals and boundary conditions in calculus.
NEXT STEPS
  • Review the application of integration by parts in multivariable calculus.
  • Study the properties and applications of gradient and divergence in vector fields.
  • Explore boundary conditions and their implications in calculus problems.
  • Practice solving triple integrals involving vector functions in Cartesian coordinates.
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Students and professionals in mathematics, physics, and engineering who are working with multivariable calculus, particularly those focusing on vector calculus and integration techniques.

  • #31
jhartc90 said:
If only uv disappears, we have proved the relation. How will doing it for each component change anything? Have you figured that part out? I am stumped
For right now, let's just assume the uv term vanishes. I don't see how you can conclude you've proved the relation, especially in light of your questions.

jhartc90 said:
How will the dy and dz terms affect this? Wouldnt they just turn into yz?
No because the integral of ##f(\vec{r})\partial_x A_x## is generally still a function of ##y## and ##z##.

It seems to me that you're reluctant to do any calculations because you can't see yet how it's going to work out. Sometimes you just have to try stuff and then it becomes clear. So deal with the other terms and see what you get.
 
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  • #32
vela said:
For right now, let's just assume the uv term vanishes. I don't see how you can conclude you've proved the relation, especially in light of your questions.No because the integral of ##f(\vec{r})\partial_x A_x## is generally still a function of ##y## and ##z##.

It seems to me that you're reluctant to do any calculations because you can't see yet how it's going to work out. Sometimes you just have to try stuff and then it becomes clear. So deal with the other terms and see what you get.

You are right, I am reluctant because I do not see how its going to work out. The issue I see is that We have a triple integral here. The first one we are integrating wrt x. From there, we get the uv - int(vdu) term.

Then we have two outside integrals. I am lost on how this will affect the inside integral
 
  • #33
You're not doing any integration. You still have integrals with respect to each coordinate. Note that that's what you have on the righthand side as well.
 
  • #34
In the integral you wrote, we would get:

$$\int\int((f(x,y,z)A_x-\int(A_x*\frac{df}{dx}*dx)dydz)$$

Is this the final answer for the x-component, and we just repeat with y and z? And then add them all together?
 
  • #35
Yes. Note that we are assuming boundary conditions such that the first term (the one with only two integrations) vanishes.
 
  • #36
What sort of BCs? Just as r->infinity, f(r)A(r) goes to 0?
 
  • #37
Yes. That would be sufficient.
 

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