Proving thermodynamic relationship

AI Thread Summary
The discussion focuses on deriving the heat capacity at constant volume, Cv, using thermodynamic principles. A user attempts to prove the relationship Cv = (∂U/∂T)v = T(∂S/∂T)v but encounters difficulties in applying the first law of thermodynamics. The conversation highlights confusion over the application of the product rule in differentiation and emphasizes that the correct approach involves dividing by dT while holding volume constant. Clarifications are sought regarding the derivation of terms and the proper treatment of differentials in thermodynamic equations. The exchange underscores the importance of precise mathematical treatment in thermodynamic derivations.
goggles31
Messages
33
Reaction score
0
Cv = (∂U/∂T)v = T(∂S/∂T)v

I can prove this by using the Maxwell relations, but I have trouble deriving it from the first law.

dU = TdS - pdV
(∂U/∂T)v = T(∂S/∂T)v + ∂S(∂T/∂T)v = T(∂S/∂T)v + ∂S

Is there a problem with my derivation?
 
Science news on Phys.org
goggles31 said:
dU = TdS - pdV
(∂U/∂T)v = T(∂S/∂T)v + ∂S(∂T/∂T)v = T(∂S/∂T)v + ∂S
Could you explain how you got the second term?
 
Fightfish said:
Could you explain how you got the second term?

I applied to product rule to Tds hence obtaining two terms.
 
goggles31 said:
I applied to product rule to Tds hence obtaining two terms.
You don't apply the product rule here because you are not actually differentiating per se - you are not finding ##\frac{d}{dT} (dU)##, which doesn't make sense because well, what does it mean to differentiate an infinitesimal differential quantity?

Rather what we are doing is simply "division" - the mathematicians will complain here, but what we are doing can be rigorously justified if we so wish. That is to say, we divide by ##dT## throughout and then impose the condition that ##dV = 0##.
 
  • Like
Likes goggles31
If S=S(T,V), what is dS in terms of dT and dV?
 
  • Like
Likes Zypheros_Knight
I need to calculate the amount of water condensed from a DX cooling coil per hour given the size of the expansion coil (the total condensing surface area), the incoming air temperature, the amount of air flow from the fan, the BTU capacity of the compressor and the incoming air humidity. There are lots of condenser calculators around but they all need the air flow and incoming and outgoing humidity and then give a total volume of condensed water but I need more than that. The size of the...
Thread 'Why work is PdV and not (P+dP)dV in an isothermal process?'
Let's say we have a cylinder of volume V1 with a frictionless movable piston and some gas trapped inside with pressure P1 and temperature T1. On top of the piston lay some small pebbles that add weight and essentially create the pressure P1. Also the system is inside a reservoir of water that keeps its temperature constant at T1. The system is in equilibrium at V1, P1, T1. Now let's say i put another very small pebble on top of the piston (0,00001kg) and after some seconds the system...
I was watching a Khan Academy video on entropy called: Reconciling thermodynamic and state definitions of entropy. So in the video it says: Let's say I have a container. And in that container, I have gas particles and they're bouncing around like gas particles tend to do, creating some pressure on the container of a certain volume. And let's say I have n particles. Now, each of these particles could be in x different states. Now, if each of them can be in x different states, how many total...
Back
Top