Proving Time Travel: What Evidence is Needed?

[Smart Guy]

What would a person need to do or show us to prove he is a traveler from the future. What would be the key piece of evidence that says, hey this guy is for real.

To me his technology as a whole should speak for itself.

 

[Njorl]

He would have to make predictions of such an improbable nature that it would be more believable that he was from the future than just guessing correctly. For each individual, the nature of such predictions would be different. For the more credulous, predicting the daily number would do it. For others, guessing the lotto number right for a whole year might not be convincing. They would just think it was a big fix.

I would be in this later crowd. The only tenuously possible means of time-travel suggested so far would only allow you to travel back to when the device was first built. Since it hasn't been built, I would remain very skeptical of alleged time-travelers. I believe it would be easier to fix the lotto drawings for a full year than to successfully travel in time.

Njorl

 

[Adrian Baker]

No way!

Nothing would convince me! Sorry if that sounds narrow minded, and yes, we should always be open to changes in our world view, but I don't honestly believe that ANYONE could convince me that he had come from the future.

Does that make me a good, or a bad Physicist I wonder... [?]

 

[Ivan Seeking]

No matter how convincing the demo, such as to name major world events and other details ahead of time down to the minute - 9/11, stock values, election results, international political events, newspaper headlines, deaths of famous people, we could always assume that he or she is psychic.

How about one copy of a newspaper in advance? We have the details and exact number of deaths in accidents and listed in the obituariess. Then we have sports news, lotto numbers, and the other items listed above. It seems that one edition of the LA Times in advance from a good news day could cinch the debate. Of course, then you might think you are on The Joe Schmo Show.

Watch out for reality TV all you true believers.

I bet some gag like this is coming to TV soon.

 

[Jonathan]

Njorl: How do you know that a time machine hasn't been built yet? Maybe some nut made one, went back in time, and couldn't tell us. Of couse we would have to assume he ended up dying or something, maybe he touched his past self and they annihilated or something. It's not like anyone would notice if one of the Lone Gunman (see X-Files) types went missing.

 

[Njorl]

Originally posted by Jonathan
Njorl: How do you know that a time machine hasn't been built yet? Maybe some nut made one, went back in time, and couldn't tell us. Of couse we would have to assume he ended up dying or something, maybe he touched his past self and they annihilated or something. It's not like anyone would notice if one of the Lone Gunman (see X-Files) types went missing.

I don't "know" it. I believe it to be highly improbable. In fact I assign it a lower probability than the probability that all existence is just a dream. That's pretty low.

Njorl

 

[Smart Guy]

Originally posted by Jonathan
Njorl: How do you know that a time machine hasn't been built yet? Maybe some nut made one, went back in time, and couldn't tell us.

If he went back in time and could not come back then his trip back in time did not work it was just suicide. That is not a time machine. The purpose of a time machine would be to go back in time, do whatever it is you have went back to do, and return home. Then there would be no proof needed. Is a time machine that dosent work still considered a time machine?

 

[einsteinian77]

i have a question regarding that fantasy tale about john Titor. What was his alleged objective in traveling into the past since he was from the military. I'm just naturally curious to know

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Originally posted by einsteinian77
i have a question regarding that fantasy tale about john Titor. What was his alleged objective in traveling into the past since he was from the military. I'm just naturally curious to know

Hey there einsteinian77,
Please see the John Titor thread:
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5396

thanks,
Ivan

 

[einsteinian77]

Thanks Ivan Seeking, I read almost the whole thing but i couldn't find what his objective was.

 

[enigma]

*cough* publicity stunt *cough*

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Originally posted by einsteinian77
Thanks Ivan Seeking, I read almost the whole thing but i couldn't find what his objective was.

I think he claimed to bring back information critical of our survival. I tend to think this was more a joke that got out of control rather than a scam.

Please take any further Titor discussions to the Titor thread; lest we end up with Titor all over the board. Did you see the number of hits on his thread?

 

[wasteofo2]

Originally posted by Smart Guy
What would a person need to do or show us to prove he is a traveler from the future. What would be the key piece of evidence that says, hey this guy is for real.

To me his technology as a whole should speak for itself.

Taking me to the future would be one thing...

Other than that, a series of highly accurate and precise weather predictions would seem to be the only thing which he could not actively influence. Even if he told me about stocks or politics or something, he could concievably influence that.

What a great joke it would be if someone convinced me they were from the future, and then revealed themself to be nothing but a psychic...


There was actually someonetime in spring 2003 who made an amazing series of stock investments which turned out ridiculously well for him based on big changes/merges etc. which he couldn't legally, and with the amount of things he did, logically known of. He made millions and millions of dollars in such a short time, that he was arrested. When questioned he said that he was from the future and that his original plan was just to come and make a good amount of money, but all the knowledge of exactly what would happen was too much and he couldn't resist exploiting it to the fullest. I never actually heard what happened to him...

 

[wasteofo2]

Originally posted by Ivan Seeking

How about one copy of a newspaper in advance? We have the details and exact number of deaths in accidents and listed in the obituariess. Then we have sports news, lotto numbers, and the other items listed above. It seems that one edition of the LA Times in advance from a good news day could cinch the debate. Of course, then you might think you are on The Joe Schmo Show.

If someone showed me an exact copy of tommorows/next weeks/next years news paper and it turend out to mathc exactly, I'd assume they had control over the printing of the newspaper on that day.

 

[ShawnD]

The one thing that would convince me is a good explanation of how he managed to go back in time AND stay on earth. The Earth is moving super fast. If you went just 1 second back in time, you would appear to be many kilometers away from the point you started at (relative to the earth).

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Originally posted by wasteofo2
If someone showed me an exact copy of tommorows/next weeks/next years news paper and it turend out to mathc exactly, I'd assume they had control over the printing of the newspaper on that day.

They would have no way to control the real news which could be verified elsewhere.

 

[wasteofo2]

Originally posted by Ivan Seeking
They would have no way to control the real news which could be verified elsewhere.

Do you mean "real news" like the news on CNN, or real news as in teh actual occurence of things?

Someone could hand me an "early copy" of a newspaper saying "Oil production plant in dallas blows up due to gas leak in bathroom." and if I saw it on CNN as well it's still possible that he influenced CNN and any other news source which may report on it. If I actually saw this dallas oil production plant which had blown up, there's still the possibility he was responsible for it in some way. Even though the chance of someone being in control of all news outlets and even how things happen is really small, I think it's higher than the chance of someone coming back in time and telling me about the future for no apparent reason.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

No you couldn't fake all of the news in even one daily LA Times paper. You would have to influence events all over the world.

 

[wasteofo2]

Originally posted by Ivan Seeking
No you couldn't fake all of the news in even one daily LA Times paper. You would have to influence events all over the world.

I think it'd be more likely that someone could fake all of the news in one daily LA times than it would be for someone to come from the future and tell me about tommorow's happenings.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Originally posted by wasteofo2
I think it'd be more likely that someone could fake all of the news in one daily LA times than it would be for someone to come from the future and tell me about tommorow's happenings.

In other words, you are saying that you think travel from the future is impossible?

 

[wasteofo2]

Originally posted by Ivan Seeking
In other words, you are saying that you think travel from the future is impossible?

No. I'd simply be more likely to accept the fact that someone had somehow gotten control of the news that was publicised for one day, perhaps through mob or corporate ties of some sort, than I would that someone had come from the future to tell me trivial things about tommorrow.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Originally posted by wasteofo2
No. I'd simply be more likely to accept the fact that someone had somehow gotten control of the news that was publicised for one day, perhaps through mob or corporate ties of some sort, than I would that someone had come from the future to tell me trivial things about tommorrow.

I don't know about the motives for time traveling, but logically the goal was to identify an absolute test.


Why do you think time travel is possible?

 

[wasteofo2]

Originally posted by Ivan Seeking
I don't know about the motives for time traveling, but logically the goal was to identify an absolute test.


Why do you think time travel is possible?

I think that theoretically, most anything is possible. I know very little about hypothetical methods of time travel, but that's hardly a reason to say that it's impossible. I'd actualyl be in a much better position to say that I don't think it's possible if I knew a lot about propsed methods. And even if I did know a lot about propsed methods of time travel, and if it is eventually attained, the way in which it's done might be totally different than how people thought it would be.

 

[selfAdjoint]

Hey Waste, check out the time travel board in the MKaku forum. There's a link there to an interview with Dr. Kaku on time travel, and he lays out the possibilities and objections very well, I thought.