Push from a Narrow Base vs Wide Base

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    Base Push
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the physics of applying force through different contact areas, specifically comparing the effects of pushing from a narrow base versus a wide base. Participants explore this concept through various examples, including pushing with a palm versus a finger and the analogy of cutting through butter with different tools.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that pressure, defined as force per unit area, plays a significant role in the ease of pushing from different bases.
  • Another participant questions the intuitive understanding of force application, using the example of cutting butter with a sharp knife versus a broader block of wood.
  • A participant provides a quantitative comparison of the contact areas of a hand and a finger, suggesting that the same force applied through a larger area results in lower pressure compared to a smaller area.
  • Concerns are raised about the mechanics involved in pushing with a finger, including the need to lock finger joints and the implications of muscle forces acting over short lever arms.
  • There is a request for clarification on what constitutes a narrow or wide base and the specific changes being referred to in the context of the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the importance of pressure in understanding the differences between pushing from a narrow versus a wide base. However, there are varying perspectives on the implications of these differences, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific mechanics and definitions involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully defined the terms "narrow base" and "wide base," leading to potential ambiguity in the discussion. Additionally, the relationship between force, area, and pressure is acknowledged but not fully explored in mathematical terms.

FizicsAM
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Hello!

When moving an object, how do you describe the changes when you push from a narrow base vs a wide base? For example, say you push something heavy with your palm vs your index finger. It feels easier to push from a palm rather than a finger even if the force from my arm is the same but I'm not sure what's going on from a physics standpoint.

Another way to think about it is a narrow column vs a wider column to support a roof.
 
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Pressure. ie Force per unit area.
 
Can you elaborate please?
 
Why is it easier to cut through butter with a sharp knife as opposed to with a broader block of wood? Imagine that you push with the same force in each case; what does your intuition tell you?
 
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You mentioned pushing with the palm of your hand or the tip of your finger.
What is the area of your hand? Mine is about ## 50 cm^2 ##
The area of your finger tip? Mine about ##1 cm^2 ##
So whatever force I need to push, is spread over 50x as much area with my hand as with my finger.
The finger pressure is 50x as big for the same force.
 
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FizicsAM said:
...
When moving an object, how do you describe the changes when you push from a narrow base vs a wide base?...
Could you explain what narrow or wide base means to you?
What type of changes do you refer to?
 
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FizicsAM said:
For example, say you push something heavy with your palm vs your index finger. It feels easier to push from a palm rather than a finger even if the force from my arm is the same but I'm not sure what's going on from a physics standpoint.
Part of it is pressure as already explained. The other part is that for pushing with the finger, you have to lock your finger joints using muscle forces, which act over rather short lever arms at these joints.
 
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