Question about Photoelectric Effect versus Compton Scattering.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interaction of photons with electrons in solid matter, specifically comparing the photoelectric effect and Compton scattering. Participants explore the energy thresholds at which each phenomenon is more likely to occur, considering the implications of photon energy on electron behavior.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that the photoelectric effect is more likely at lower photon energies, while Compton scattering is favored at higher energies, such as x-rays.
  • One participant questions why higher energy photons cannot simply be absorbed by electrons to result in ejection with greater kinetic energy.
  • Another participant suggests that momentum considerations may limit the ability of high-energy photons to transfer all their energy to an electron, indicating a need for the lattice to compensate for momentum differences.
  • A later reply discusses the relationship between photon energy and electron behavior, mentioning that higher photon energies can probe deeper into the band structure, affecting the likelihood of electron ejection.
  • One participant emphasizes that while higher energy photons can lead to the ejection of electrons, there is a limit where further increases in energy do not yield significantly more photoelectrons due to penetration and escape depth considerations.
  • Another participant uses an analogy comparing the interaction of photons in the visible range to a baseball colliding with a truck, suggesting that lower energy photons have less impact on electrons.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying viewpoints on the mechanisms behind the photoelectric effect and Compton scattering, with no consensus reached on the reasons for the observed energy thresholds or the implications of momentum considerations.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of energy thresholds, the complexity of electron band structures, and the unresolved nature of momentum transfer in high-energy photon interactions.

uart
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In the context of interaction of photons (with energies from around visible light and upwards) and the electrons of solid matter. I've read that at the lower energy levels that the photoelectric effect is more likely to occur during such an interaction and that Compton scattering is more likely for higher photon energies like x-rays. (... and pair production at even higher energies).

I was just wondering why this is. Looking at it from a simplistic point of view I would have expected the opposite. That is, I would have expected that the higher energy photons would have been more likely to completely knock an electron out of the solid (PE effect) and that the lower energy photons would have been more likely to just make the electrons recoil as in Compton scattering.

Any simple explanations?
 
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The photoelectric effect involves the electron absorbing the photon. Compton scattering involves the photon giving up part of its energy to the electron, since it has too much energy to get absorbed.
 
Thanks mathman, I guess I was wondering why the electron can't just absorb the higher energy photon and and get ejected at with more KE.

Anyway it's making more sense to me now. So I'm guessing it's momentum considerations that makes it unlikely for a higher energy photon to give up all it's energy. If a high energy photon were to give all of it's energy to an electron then the electron would end up with more momentum than the photon could provide, so the lattice would have to make up the difference. Does this sound correct?
 
uart said:
Thanks mathman, I guess I was wondering why the electron can't just absorb the higher energy photon and and get ejected at with more KE.

Actually, it can, but there's a limit to this where, after a certain level, the increase will not be noticeable.

As you increase the photon energy, you not only can get electrons close to the Fermi energy, you also start to probe deeper into the band structure. So not only are you getting higher energy photoelectrons, but you're also getting more low-energy electrons coming from deeper in the band. However, at some point, you will no longer get any more significant photoelectrons because the penetration depth of the photon is now longer than the escape depth of the photoelectrons. This is especially true for metals where the electrons trying to escape the metal have a higher probability of losing its energy via collisions with other conduction electrons. So when the penetration depth is longer than the electrons' escape depth, you'll not get any more electrons.

Zz.
 
uart said:
In the context of interaction of photons (with energies from around visible light and upwards) and the electrons of solid matter. I've read that at the lower energy levels that the photoelectric effect is more likely to occur during such an interaction and that Compton scattering is more likely for higher photon energies like x-rays. (... and pair production at even higher energies).

I was just wondering why this is. Looking at it from a simplistic point of view I would have expected the opposite. That is, I would have expected that the higher energy photons would have been more likely to completely knock an electron out of the solid (PE effect) and that the lower energy photons would have been more likely to just make the electrons recoil as in Compton scattering.

Any simple explanations?
About photoelectric effect ZapperZ answered you, about Compton scattering, think that only for X-rays the photon starts to have enough energy to do something to the electron; for a photon in the visible range, a collision with an electron is something like a baseball colliding with a truck.
 

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