Question about power sets and cartesian product

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of power sets and Cartesian products in set theory, specifically focusing on the power sets of the sets A and B, where A={1, 2} and B={∅}. The original poster is attempting to understand the Cartesian product of these power sets and is grappling with the implications of including the empty set.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to compute the Cartesian product of the power sets and expresses confusion regarding the role of the empty set in this operation. Some participants clarify the distinction between the empty set and a set containing the empty set, and they discuss the nature of ordered pairs in Cartesian products.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging in clarifying concepts related to Cartesian products and power sets. Some guidance has been offered regarding the misunderstanding of multiplication versus Cartesian products, and the discussion is exploring the implications of including the empty set in these operations.

Contextual Notes

The original poster is new to the concepts being discussed, which may influence their understanding and the questions they raise. There is an ongoing exploration of definitions and assumptions related to set theory.

dustbin
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Let A={1, 2} and B={∅}. First, I find the power set of A and the power set of B:

P(A)= { ∅, {1}, {2}, {1, 2} }
P(B)= { ∅, {∅} }

I believe the power sets are correct. I'm still new to the concept of power sets. Anyway, my main question is regarding cartesian product of power sets. I'm asked to find P(A)xP(B). I'm a bit confused when doing this operation due to the null set and set containing a null set.

This is my attempt:

P(A)xP(B)= { ∅, ({1}, {∅}), ({2}, {∅}), ({1,2}, {∅}) }

From my understanding, any nonempty set A multiplied by ∅ is Ax∅=∅. Is my answer correct?
 
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Yes your answer is correct.
 
hi dustbin! :smile:
dustbin said:
From my understanding, any nonempty set A multiplied by ∅ is Ax∅=∅. Is my answer correct?

nooo … a product space is not multiplication

every element of a product space is an (ordered) set of two elements, one from each space

either or both of those elements can be ∅

(generally, the number of elements in X x Y is the number in X times the number in Y)
 
Thank you for the responses!
Would you mind elaborating a bit more on ∅, tiny-tim? After some more reading, I can see why I am wrong for calling this multiplication. However, I am not sure about cartesian products involving ∅. For instance...

With P(A)xP(B), the "first" ordered pairs would be (∅, ∅), (∅, {∅}), ({1}, ∅). All of these are simply ∅. I can understand why the first would just be ∅, but I'm a little confused about the last one.

Pardon my ignorance on the matter. This is my first foray into the subject of sets.
 
dustbin said:
With P(A)xP(B), the "first" ordered pairs would be (∅, ∅), (∅, {∅}), ({1}, ∅). All of these are simply ∅.

no

you're confusing ∅ x B with {∅} x B

∅ has no elements, {∅} has one element​

∅ x B is {(x,y) : x ε ∅ and y ε B} … obviously, there's no such x, so there's no such (x,y), ie ∅ x B = ∅

{∅} x B is {(x,y) : x ε {∅} and y ε B} … obviously, there's exactly one such x, it's ∅, so {∅} x B = {(∅,y) : y ε B} … it has the same number of elements as B :wink:

if B contains only one element, say b, then ∅ x B = ∅ x {b} = (∅,b)

in particular, if b = ∅ (so B = {∅}), then ∅ x B = ∅ x ∅ = (∅,∅)​

it doesn't matter what the elements of a set are called

if A has four elements, we can call them ∅,b,c,d or 1,2,3,4 or Lucy,Ricky,Fred,Ethel …

∅ is just as much a member of the set as Lucy is! :smile:
 
Thank you tinytim. That's exactly what I was looking for. That helped immensely!
 

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