Question about speed and vehicles

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    Speed Vehicles
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the challenges of controlling vehicles, specifically cars and aircraft, at high speeds, including supersonic speeds. Participants explore various factors that may affect maneuverability and control, such as inertia, kinetic energy, momentum, and aerodynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that Newton's second law (F=ma) indicates that the effort to accelerate or decelerate a body does not change with speed.
  • Others argue that changing direction or reversing at high speeds presents unique challenges, questioning why it is harder to reverse a vehicle moving at higher speeds.
  • Concerns are raised about the sensitivity of flight controls at supersonic speeds, where minor adjustments become significantly more impactful.
  • Some participants mention that inertia may not be a primary factor in controlling vehicles at high speeds, while friction and air resistance are discussed as relevant factors.
  • There is a mention of the power-to-weight ratio, structural strength, and stability as critical factors affecting aircraft maneuverability.
  • Participants express uncertainty regarding the specific factors affecting control, with requests for clarification and elaboration on various points.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the primary factors affecting control at high speeds, with multiple competing views and ongoing questions about the roles of inertia, friction, and aerodynamics.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions involve misunderstandings about terms like "net speed change" and the relevance of aerodynamics versus ground friction, indicating a need for clearer definitions and context in the discussion.

  • #31
Sundown444 said:
I meant air and space.

That makes it easier, because in space we don't have to talk about drag from the air.

So the answer is no, faster motion is not harder to control. You can stop asking what factors make it harder, because it isn't harder.

Especially in space, get used to thinking of different frames of reference. An object moving fast in one frame is moving only slowly in a second frame, and not moving at all in a third frame. Yet the laws of physics remain the same in all frames. The difficulty of maneuvering a heavy object is the same in all frames. That is the kind of thinking (plus light speed) that eventually led Einstein to the special theory of relativity.
 
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  • #32
anorlunda said:
That makes it easier, because in space we don't have to talk about drag from the air.

So the answer is no, faster motion is not harder to control. You can stop asking what factors make it harder, because it isn't harder.

Especially in space, get used to thinking of different frames of reference. An object moving fast in one frame is moving only slowly in a second frame, and not moving at all in a third frame. Yet the laws of physics remain the same in all frames. The difficulty of maneuvering a heavy object is the same in all frames. That is the kind of thinking (plus light speed) that eventually led Einstein to the special theory of relativity.

So the question should have been about mass, not speed, then? I could be wrong, but still...

Are you sure about the speed thing, though? I was also wondering about how it can be difficult to stop an object and changing direction. Momentum is how difficult something is to stop, and that is dependent on velocity. There is also friction and fluid friction (the latter is not used for space), especially the former being needed to come to a stop on the ground, and from what I have learned, kinetic energy quadruples with speed, which not only quadruples kinetic energy, but also stopping distance, if I recall correctly. Speaking of changing direction, centripetal acceleration is quadrupled with velocity, so the more velocity, the centripetal acceleration is quadrupled, and this, in terms of centripetal force (with mass added), more force is required to make centripetal acceleration happen.
 
  • #33
If you keep changing the question I'm losing interest in answering. But one last time.

Remember the delta ##v## from post #6? Let's put it in terms of momentum which is ##mv##. Start at time 1 with momentum ##mv_1## then change to momentum ##mv_2##. The mass stays constant but velocity changes. Then the change in momentum is ##m(v_1-v_2)## If you let ##v_2## equal zero than means stopping. If you let ##v_2=-v_1## then we reversed direction.

The point is that the effort or work we need to do depends on the change in velocity, not the value of ##v_1##. So ##v_1## big means fast, ##v_1## small means slow. ##m(v_1-v_2)## is the same starting fast or slow. But stopping a fast object is more change in ##v## than for a slow object. But different observers moving at different speeds will disagree about what speed means stopped. So to say it observer independently, it is only the change that matters, not the initial velocity.Do you understand now?
 
  • #34
anorlunda said:
If you keep changing the question I'm losing interest in answering. But one last time.

Remember the delta ##v## from post #6? Let's put it in terms of momentum which is ##mv##. Start at time 1 with momentum ##mv_1## then change to momentum ##mv_2##. The mass stays constant but velocity changes. Then the change in momentum is ##m(v_1-v_2)## If you let ##v_2## equal zero than means stopping. If you let ##v_2=-v_1## then we reversed direction.

The point is that the effort or work we need to do depends on the change in velocity, not the value of ##v_1##. So ##v_1## big means fast, ##v_1## small means slow. ##m(v_1-v_2)## is the same starting fast or slow. But stopping a fast object is more change in ##v## than for a slow object. But different observers moving at different speeds will disagree about what speed means stopped. So to say it observer independently, it is only the change that matters, not the initial velocity.Do you understand now?

Sorry. I didn't mean to change the question. I thought it was clear enough, but it wasn't. My bad.

And yeah, I understand. Thanks.
 
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