Question: conservation of E and Newton's second law

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the law of conservation of mechanical energy and Newton's second law, particularly in the context of free-falling objects. Participants explore how calculus can be applied to demonstrate this relationship, with inquiries extending to two-dimensional cases and algebraic expressions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks to demonstrate how conservation of mechanical energy is derived from Newton's second law using calculus.
  • Another participant provides a mathematical expression for the energy of a particle in one dimension and derives the rate of change of energy, concluding that it equals zero.
  • Questions arise about extending the discussion to two-dimensional cases, with suggestions to substitute the correct kinetic energy and consider torque.
  • Some participants express confusion regarding the algebraic representation of the relationship between energy and forces.
  • A participant mentions the gradient operator and directs others to external resources for clarification.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion reflects a lack of consensus, with participants expressing confusion and seeking clarification on various aspects of the topic, particularly regarding the two-dimensional case and algebraic expressions.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully resolved the mathematical steps necessary to express the relationship clearly, and there are indications of missing assumptions regarding the dimensionality of the problem.

huhmattg
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I was wondering if anyone had some input on how, via calculus, to show how the law of conservation of mechanical energy for an object in free fall (ideal) is a direct consequence of the of Newtons second law.
 
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The energy of a particle moving in 1 dimension through a potential field V(x) is
[tex]E=\frac{1}{2} m ( dx/dt )^{2} + V(x)[/tex]
Then the rate of change of the energy is
[tex]dE/dt = m ( dx/dt ) ( d^{2} x/dt^{2}) + dV/dt[/tex]

Use Newton's second law on the first term to give
[tex]dE/dt = F ( dx/dt ) + dV/dt[/tex]

But by definition,
[tex]F= - dV/dx = - (dV/dt) / (dx/dt)[/tex]

Substituting this into the previous expression gives dE/dt=0, as expected.
 
Thanks! but what about 2-dimensional case?
 
huhmattg said:
Thanks! but what about 2-dimensional case?

Just substitute the correct kinetic energy into the problem. If you have rotation you will have to look the torque. And remember that:

[tex]\mathbf{F}=-\mathbf{\nabla}V(\mathbf{r})[/tex]
 
Sorry but I am still confused, is there a way to express the relationship algebraically?
 
What do you mean?
 
I am having a probelm understanding the formulas
 

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