Question on general solution to harmonic EoM

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the equation of motion for a pendulum, specifically the form of the general solution to the differential equation involved. Participants are exploring the relationship between the physical setup of the pendulum and the mathematical representation of its motion.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster questions how the solution Φ=Asinωt+Bcosωt is derived, seeking a deeper understanding of the reasoning behind this form. Some participants suggest that the solution applies under certain conditions, such as small angle approximations, while others provide various perspectives on the historical and mathematical basis for this solution.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the original poster's question, providing explanations and alternative viewpoints. There is acknowledgment of the complexity of the problem, with some suggesting that the solution is valid under specific conditions. The discussion is ongoing, with no explicit consensus reached.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of the limitations of the small angle approximation and the distinction between different types of solutions to the differential equation governing the pendulum's motion. Some participants note that the original equation is more complex than the simple harmonic form suggested by the original poster.

Vitani11
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Homework Statement


An equation of motion for a pendulum:

(-g/L)sinΦ = Φ(double dot)

Homework Equations


L = length
g = gravity
ω = angular velocity
Φο = initial Φ

The Attempt at a Solution


The solution is Φ=Asinωt+Bcosωt

solving for A and B by setting Φ and Φ(dot) equal to zero respectively gives:

Φ= Φοcosωt

My question is how can you just go ahead and write down Φ=Asinωt+Bcosωt? My professor said it was because this was the only function that when differentiated twice give -sinωt but I can't just take that for what it is because I need to know how to arrive there.
 
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Vitani11 said:

Homework Statement


An equation of motion for a pendulum:

(-g/L)sinΦ = Φ(double dot)

Homework Equations


L = length
g = gravity
ω = angular velocity
Φο = initial Φ

The Attempt at a Solution


The solution is Φ=Asinωt+Bcosωt

solving for A and B by setting Φ and Φ(dot) equal to zero respectively gives:

Φ= Φοcosωt

My question is how can you just go ahead and write down Φ=Asinωt+Bcosωt? My professor said it was because this was the only function that when differentiated twice give -sinωt but I can't just take that for what it is because I need to know how to arrive there.

Your solution is incorrect: the differential equation ##\ddot{\Phi} = -k \sin(\Phi)## involves Elliptical functions. It is NOT of the form ##\Phi = A \sin \omega t + B \cos \omega t##. See, eg.,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendulum_(mathematics) .

For very small angles ##|\Phi| \ll 1## we have ##\sin(\Phi) \approx \Phi##, so for small angles the solution is of the form you want.

As for why that form applies: you can take several points of view.
(1) Two hundred years ago somebody discovered that form of solution, and we have been taught it ever since.
(2) You can recognize that the equation ##\ddot{x} = k x## has solution ##x = e^{\sqrt{k} t}.## When ##k = -c^2## that gives ##e^{\pm i c t}## and Euler's equation gives that as ##\cos ct \pm i \sin ct.## Taking the real and imaginary parts gives us the ##\sin## and ##\cos## forms.
(3) You can try to solve ##\ddot{x} = -c^2 x## as a power series ##x = a_0 + a_1 t + a_2 t^2 + \cdots## and use standard DE methods to determine the coefficients ##a_0, a_1, a_2, \ldots##. You will find that you get a combination of the series expansions of ##\sin ct## and ##\cos ct.##
(4) You can use the method of Laplace transforms.

There are other ways as well, but realisically, (1) is the easiest explanation. Your professor's explanation is 100% correct (except that both ##\sin## and ##\cos## will work).
 
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Good explanation, thank you.
 
When you say solve x(double dot) = -c2x as a power series in (3) are you referring to perturbation theory? .
 
Vitani11 said:
When you say solve x(double dot) = -c2x as a power series in (3) are you referring to perturbation theory? .

No, it has nothing to do with perturbation theory. Development of series solutions to DEs is one of the topics that gets covered in just about any DE course. Or, you can Google "series solution to differential equation".
 
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