Questions about magnetism and spin.

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter jaydnul
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Magnetism Spin
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of spin and magnetism, particularly focusing on the differences between the spin of celestial bodies like planets and the intrinsic spin of elementary particles such as electrons. Participants explore the implications of spin on angular momentum and its role in generating magnetic fields, as well as the mathematical frameworks that describe these phenomena.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that while both planets and electrons possess angular momentum, the nature of their spin is fundamentally different, with electron spin being an intrinsic property and planetary spin resulting from external forces.
  • There is a discussion about the analogy of electron spin to classical spinning objects, with a caution that this analogy has limitations, as electrons are point particles without physical dimensions.
  • One participant explains that electron spin is quantized and behaves differently than classical angular momentum, requiring a 720° rotation for the wave function to return to its original state, which is a unique characteristic of half-integer spin particles.
  • Another participant mentions that the magnetic field produced by an electron's spin can be likened to that of a current loop, though the underlying reasons for this relationship are not fully understood and may relate to quantum electrodynamics (QED).
  • There is a reference to the Dirac equation as a framework that describes the interaction of electron spin with magnetic fields, suggesting that spin is a natural consequence of this equation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of spin and its implications for magnetism, with no consensus reached on the physical explanations for these phenomena or the adequacy of existing theories.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the unclear relationship between mathematical models (like SU(2) and SO(3)) and physical reality, as well as the unresolved nature of how electron spin generates magnetic fields.

jaydnul
Messages
558
Reaction score
15
I just read a couple articles on angular momentum and spin... So what is the difference between the spin of a planet on its axis and the spin of an electron on its axis(because they both have angular momentum, right?) Also, if it is the spin of an electron that creates and determines magnetism, what is the physical explanation as to why a spinning static(well i guess formerly static) electric field causes a magnetic force?

Thanks
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Just like spin of electron is similar to something spinning, but you shouldn't take it too literally, the magnetic field produced by spin is very much like that of a current loop, but again, you shouldn't take it too literally. There isn't anything actually spinning in there, so the analogy only goes so far.

The biggest difference between an electron and a planet is that electron is a point-particle. It has no dimension to it. In order for a ball to actually spin, it needs to have a size, and electron doesn't have it. The probability density of an electron can be distributed, but it still has the same spin at every point in space it can occupy.

The other part is the fact that the spin itself is half-integer. It quantizes the same way an orbital angular momentum would, but if there was an actual spinning object in there, it's wave function would not match itself after a 360° rotation. In fact, you need a 720° rotation for the wave function of electron to match itself in order for it to work as an actual rotation. And that actually manifests itself in the behavior of half-integer particles under permutation. If you switch any two electrons, the overall wave function changes sign. That's what results in different statistical behavior of fermions and bosons.

Mathematically, the electron's spin exists in a space spanned by SU(2) group. This has the feature described above. Because there exists a sort of 2:1 correspondence (a homomorphism, specifically) between SU(2) and SO(3), later describing rotations in 3D space, you effectively end up with spinors in SU(2) behaving like they are orientations in 3D space, but with "full rotation" being 720°.

It is not yet clear whether this actually corresponds to an SU(2) subspace of physical reality or just a mathematical curiosity caused by something else we don't understand. As far as why it causes magnetic field just like there is a current loop, I guess I can point to QED Lagrangian and say, "It follows from that," but it's probably not a satisfactory answer. Unfortunately, I can't really do better.
 
lundyjb said:
if it is the spin of an electron that creates and determines magnetism, what is the physical explanation as to why a spinning static(well i guess formerly static) electric field causes a magnetic force?
Not sure what you mean here,Spin of the electron is a natural consequence of dirac eqn.Spin of the electron interacts with magnetic field which can be described by minimal coupling in Dirac eqn.
 
Spin is an intrinsic form of angular momentum, meaning that it is an inherently unique property of the given electron. Unlike the spin of an electron, the spin of the planet on its axis is caused by an external force.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K