Questions on AC Power Homework: Ip = V/Z & P =(I^2)R

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of AC power calculations, specifically addressing the relationships between peak current (Ip), RMS current (I), voltage representations, and power equations in the context of a homework problem. Participants explore the implications of using peak versus RMS values in calculations and the significance of phase angles in these contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why the equation Ip = V/Z uses peak current (Ip) instead of RMS current (I), suggesting a misunderstanding of the notation.
  • Another participant notes that voltage denoted as 8∠40° can be ambiguous regarding whether it represents peak or RMS values, emphasizing the need for context to clarify this.
  • It is mentioned that if a voltage is expressed as a time function, such as 8.cos(wt-40°), the value is definitely the peak value, indicating that the teacher may have used peak values in the phasor representation.
  • Some participants assert that the power equation P = I²R typically refers to average power where I is the RMS value, while also discussing the conditions under which peak values can be used.
  • There is a query about whether power can be calculated using Ip in the equation P = (Ip)² R, with a participant suggesting that this is valid under certain conditions.
  • One participant explains that instantaneous power can be calculated using the instantaneous current squared, and that average power calculations typically use RMS values to account for heating effects in resistive loads.
  • Concerns are raised about the treatment of phase angles in power calculations, particularly why the angle is ignored when substituting the magnitude of Ip into the power formula.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the use of peak versus RMS values in power calculations, with no consensus reached on the implications of phase angles in these contexts. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific conditions under which different values should be used.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight that the power equation's applicability may depend on the waveform's characteristics, noting that distorted waveforms could lead to errors if not using RMS values. Additionally, the ambiguity in voltage representation (peak vs. RMS) is acknowledged as a potential source of confusion.

influx
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Homework Statement



http://photouploads.com/images/fullsizere.jpg

I did not embed the image as its quite large

Homework Equations



N/A

The Attempt at a Solution

I'm just confused as to why Ip = V/Z (first red box)? I thought I = V/Z so why is it Ip (the peak value) in this case? As for the second red box, why have they divided it by two? Usually P =( I^2)R no?

Thanks
 
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When a voltage is denoted as, e.g., 8∠40°, there can be some ambiguity as to whether the 8 is peak or RMS, and you must rely on other cues to guide you.

If the signal is written as an explicit time function, e.g., 8.cos(wt-40°) as seen in the lower left of the board, then the 8 there is definitely the peak value. So it seems your teacher was representing the phasor by its peak value when writing it in the concise amplitude∠angle form.

power = I² R where I is the RMS value

If you have the peak value, then divide each by √2, then it's all squared
 
NascentOxygen said:
When a voltage is denoted as, e.g., 8∠40°, there can be some ambiguity as to whether the 8 is peak or RMS, and you must rely on other cues to guide you.
If nothing else is specified than the number is RMS value. That's convention in electrical engineering.
 
NascentOxygen said:
When a voltage is denoted as, e.g., 8∠40°, there can be some ambiguity as to whether the 8 is peak or RMS, and you must rely on other cues to guide you.

If the signal is written as an explicit time function, e.g., 8.cos(wt-40°) as seen in the lower left of the board, then the 8 there is definitely the peak value. So it seems your teacher was representing the phasor by its peak value when writing it in the concise amplitude∠angle form.

power = I² R where I is the RMS value

If you have the peak value, then divide each by √2, then it's all squared

Does the I in the above equation always = the RMS I value or can it also equal Ip? As in can power ever = (Ip)² R ?

Also, Ip = 1.68<-25.4 A , so why is the angle ignored when substituting into the formula for power? (only the magnitude of 1.68 is subbed in?)
 
Last edited:
instantaneous power p(t) =i(t)² R
so whatever i(t) you use gives the power at that instant

If you need to determine the peak power in a resistive load, then use the peak current.

Usually we are interested in average power, and for that you use the RMS of the time variable. This means that any AC waveform of RMS value V volts gives the same heating in a resistor as does a DC voltage also of exactly V volts.

Power is a time average over one period, so any phase angle disappears.
 
Last edited:
influx said:
Does the I in the above equation always = the RMS I value or can it also equal Ip? As in can power ever = (Ip)² R ?
Equation power = I2R refers to the average power and I is RMS value. IF you know the current has a perfect sine waveform, than you can write power = Ip2R/2 . But if the current wave form is distorded (in most of the cases in reality) than with second equation you make error in calculation. OTOH, if you use RMS value , calculation for any waveform is correct.

Also, Ip = 1.68<-25.4 A , so why is the angle ignored when substituting into the formula for power? (only the magnitude of 1.68 is subbed in?)
Becouse voltage is in phase with current if the load is purely resisive.
 

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