Questions regarding equation for circular mode frequency

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the determination of circular mode frequency for an open-ended pipe using specific equations. Participants seek clarification on unit consistency, frequency conversion, and the application of equations related to transverse waves in pipes.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether gravity should be included in the equation for circular mode frequency to ensure correct units.
  • Another participant asserts that the equation has the correct units as it stands, indicating that the square root term represents the speed of sound in the pipe material.
  • There is a discussion about whether the frequency (f) should be interpreted as radians per second and if it requires conversion to cycles per second by dividing by 2π.
  • A participant inquires if the same frequency conversion applies to a different equation used for determining transverse waves in a pipe with free ends, seeking confirmation on the frequency representation in hertz.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of including gravity in the equation and the interpretation of frequency units. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the application of frequency conversion for the second equation.

Contextual Notes

Participants emphasize the importance of using consistent units, particularly when mixing different measurement systems. There is also mention of specific parameters and their definitions within the equations, but no consensus on the necessity of gravity in the calculations.

GenSoft3d
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I'm trying to determine the circular mode frequency for an open-ended pipe using the following equation and could use some clarification:

f = (t/(2*d^2))*SQRT(E/density)

f - frequency
E - modulus of elasticity
d - mean diameter
t - wall thickness

My first question is; do I need to multiply the values inside the SQRT by gravity (386.4 in/sec2) in order to get the correct units for this equation?

Also, is the frequency noted here (f) referring to radian per second and will I need to divide it by 2*pi in order to convert it to cycles per second?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
 
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It has the right units as it is. The part with the square root is the speed of sound in the material of the pipe.
 
GenSoft3d said:
My first question is; do I need to multiply the values inside the SQRT by gravity (386.4 in/sec2) in order to get the correct units for this equation?

You need to use consistent units. SI units (kg/m^3 and Pascals) are consistent. Units that mix up "pounds mass" and "pounds force" are not.

Also, is the frequency noted here (f) referring to radian per second and will I need to divide it by 2*pi in order to convert it to cycles per second?
Yes.
 
Thanks so much for the help on this... I really appreciate it!

I may be asking the same question twice but can you verify for me if I need to apply the same freq conversion for Hz (/2*pi) to the following equation used to determine transverse waves in a pipe with free ends?

fn=pi*vKm^2/8L^2

where:

v= √ (Y/r)
Y= Young's modulus
r= density
K= 1/2 * √ (a^2 + b^2)
a= inside radii
b= outside radii
L= length
m= 3.0112, 5, 7...(2n+1)
 
GenSoft3d said:
Thanks so much for the help on this... I really appreciate it!

I may be asking the same question twice but can you verify for me if I need to apply the same freq conversion for Hz (/2*pi) to the following equation used to determine transverse waves in a pipe with free ends?

fn=pi*vKm^2/8L^2

where:

v= √ (Y/r)
Y= Young's modulus
r= density
K= 1/2 * √ (a^2 + b^2)
a= inside radii
b= outside radii
L= length
m= 3.0112, 5, 7...(2n+1)
This gives the frequency in hertz, according to Ross - Percussion instruments.
 

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