Radio Waves: Shielding & Blocking Long Wavelengths

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of radio waves in relation to shielding and blocking by materials, particularly focusing on long wavelengths compared to shorter wavelengths like x-rays. Participants explore concepts such as diffraction, refraction, and the interaction of electromagnetic radiation with matter.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether dense materials are better for blocking long wavelengths like radio waves, comparing them to shorter wavelengths like x-rays.
  • Another participant argues that different parts of the electromagnetic spectrum interact differently with matter, noting that radio waves can pass through most materials due to their lower energy levels.
  • There is a discussion about how cell phone signals can enter homes via diffraction rather than direct penetration through materials like brick.
  • Participants seek clarification on the concept of diffraction and how it allows radio waves to pass through gaps smaller than their wavelength.
  • One participant explains that if an aperture is roughly the same size or smaller than the wavelength, the electromagnetic radiation will diffract, allowing it to spread through gaps.
  • Another participant raises questions about the integrity of the wave when passing through a gap, wondering if any part of the signal is lost.
  • Participants discuss the modulation of radio and mobile phone signals, indicating that information is carried as variations in the carrier wave, which can be detected even if the wave is diffracted.
  • There are inquiries about the visual representation of waves, including the depiction of waves as straight lines and circles, and the concept of amplitude in electromagnetic waves.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the interaction of radio waves with materials, particularly regarding diffraction and the effectiveness of shielding. There is no clear consensus on the specifics of how radio waves behave in different contexts, and several questions remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the dependence on definitions of terms like diffraction and refraction, as well as the complexity of visualizing electromagnetic waves. The discussion also highlights the need for further clarification on how information is transmitted through modulated signals.

RobbieTheRobot
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For long wavelengths like radio is dense material better to block, or shield, as it is for short wavelengths like x-rays?

You can block out the photons of the visible part of them electro-magnetic spectrum by pulling the curtains closed, so how come radio waves like your AM radio, cell phone, and television can work through brick, and ignore the blockages? Is this to do with the wave-length of radio, as they are all made of photon waves you would think they would be blocked too. See here for what I've been reading : http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/science/know_l1/emspectrum.html
 
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It is erroneous to assume that since all EM radiation is made from photons it ought to behave the same. Different parts of the EM spectrum will interact quite differently with matter.

In the case of radio waves, the energy of the wave is typically not enough to induce any resonant effects with atoms, so radio waves can pass through most things. Radio waves can also diffract around most objects due to the long wavelength. Conductive surfaces or Faraday cages are typically used to shield radio waves.

Cell phone radiation cannot pass through brick, it enters your home via diffraction. Television actually works by detecting a signal on your roof via an antenna and converting it to an electrical signal, unless you have cable in which case the electrical (more correctly, optoelectronic) signal is transmitted directly to your home.

Claude.
 
Refraction

Can you explain how this refraction works, this phen. that allows radio waves to seemingly pass through things like brick. A website perhaps, with some images?
 
I think he said "diffraction". Type it into google. Fourth result: http://www.launc.tased.edu.au/online/sciences/physics/diffrac.html
 
Diffraction

Yes he did say "diffraction". Now back to microwaves like mobile phones and houses. Why does cell phone rad. not penertrate brick, and what part of the diffraction principle enables them to do so? The bending around objects, or the spreading of waves through a gap or apature. (Thanks cesiumfrog for the page).
 
The rule of thumb is that if an aperture (or obstacle - it works both ways) is roughly the same size or smaller than the wavelength, the EM radiation will diffract through the aperture (or around the obstacle as the case may be).

This is encapsulated in the elementary 'picture' of diffraction (i.e. a plane wave incident on an aperture) when you get the wave diffracting over the full 180 degrees when the size of the aperture is nearly equal to, or less than the wavelength.

Claude.
 
When the wave goes through a gap, does the whole of the wave get through, so no part of the mobile phone conversation is lost?

When you think about it it is strange, a hole less then the wavelength, and it gets though intact? Is that what you're saying?
 
Can you explain how in that site above it shows waves as straight lines AND circles radiating from a point somewhere? Also how come when you look up a wave someplace else it has amplitude, I'm finding it difficult to build up a picture of waves, especially radio waves, as obviously they can't be seen.
 
RobbieTheRobot said:
When the wave goes through a gap, does the whole of the wave get through, so no part of the mobile phone conversation is lost?

When you think about it it is strange, a hole less then the wavelength, and it gets though intact? Is that what you're saying?

Radio and Mobile phone signals are modulated, which means the information exists as a variation in frequency, phase or amplitude of a carrier wave. You therefore only need to be able to pick up the changes in the carrier wave, which means you only need to measure the wave at a single point (via an antenna).

You lose information if the signal strength becomes attenuated to the point where ambient noise blots out the information. This is a possibility if the wave is diffracting around/through many objects and apertures.

Claude.
 
  • #10
RobbieTheRobot said:
Can you explain how in that site above it shows waves as straight lines AND circles radiating from a point somewhere? Also how come when you look up a wave someplace else it has amplitude, I'm finding it difficult to build up a picture of waves, especially radio waves, as obviously they can't be seen.

This is a visual reconstruction of Huygen's principle which can be used to calculate the shape of a wavefront buy regarding all points on an existing wavefront as 'secondary' point sources of waves.

Keep in mind that the amplitude of an electromagnetic wave is simply the maximum strength of the electric field within the wave. While we often use a physical displacement to represent the wave graphically (particularly since Em waves are transverse), this method of representation does have its limitations. A contour plot is typically more physically representative (though still not perfect) of what an EM wave looks like. Wavefront diagrams (which are essentially rudimentry phase plots) such as those shown in the website are also commonly used where the amplitude of the wave is not of interest.

Claude.
 

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