Rail Car with a Sail in the Wind

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SUMMARY

The discussion focuses on the physics of a particle colliding with a rail car equipped with a sail. Key equations derived include momentum conservation, energy conservation, and the specific behavior of momentum in relation to the orientation of the rails and sail. The conservation of momentum is only applicable in the direction parallel to the rails, while the normal component is influenced by the normal force from the rail, which neutralizes any perpendicular velocity after the collision. The participants emphasize the importance of understanding the frame of reference and the implications of external forces on momentum conservation.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of momentum conservation principles
  • Familiarity with energy conservation in collisions
  • Knowledge of vector decomposition and scalar products
  • Basic concepts of frames of reference in physics
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the momentum-impulse theorem in detail
  • Learn about elastic and inelastic collisions and their implications
  • Explore the effects of external forces on momentum conservation
  • Investigate the role of frames of reference in dynamic systems
USEFUL FOR

Physics students, mechanical engineers, and anyone interested in collision dynamics and momentum conservation principles.

  • #31
MaratZakirov said:
Please prove your statement, it is totally not obvious to me.

But I agree that fewer claims is better, so let's write equations without it:
1. Momentum conservation parallel to sail (no friction with sail)
##m_p\vec{v}_{p \perp s} = m_p\vec{v}_{p \perp s}^1##
2. Momentum conservation along rail
##m_p\vec{v}_{p \parallel r} = m_p\vec{v}_{p \parallel r}^1 + m_c\vec{v}_c##
3. Restricton
##<\vec{v}_c, \vec{r}_{\perp}> = 0##
4. Energy conservation
##m_p\left| \vec{v}_p \right|^2 = m_p\left|\vec{v}_p^1\right|^2 + m_c\left|\vec{v}_c\right|^2##

Do you agree with these 4 euations?
Yes, those are the correct equations.
In the square-on case, your equation 1 gives ##m_p\vec{v}_{p \perp s} = m_p\vec{v}_{p \perp s}^1=0##. I.e., it bounces back along the same line.
 
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  • #32
MaratZakirov said:
The inertial frame of reference associated with the car before the collision is not accelerate.

Yes, but previously you did not specify "before the collision". That's what has confused some commentators, me included. I realized that's what you probably meant a while back so stopped drawing attention to it.
Since the problem statement says the cart starts at rest, you are in fact using the ground frame, so why not say so?
 
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  • #33
haruspex said:
Yes, but previously you did not specify "before the collision". That's what has confused some commentators, me included. I realized that's what you probably meant a while back so stopped drawing attention to it.
Since the problem statement says the cart starts at rest, you are in fact using the ground frame, so why not say so?
Let's look at my first post
MaratZakirov said:
All velocities are given for the inertial frame of reference associated with the cart before colliding with a particle
Maybe I should be more explicit?
 
  • #34
MaratZakirov said:
Let's look at my first post

Maybe I should be more explicit?
Ok, I missed that.
 
  • #35
MaratZakirov said:
Let's look at my first post

Maybe I should be more explicit?
I missed that too. You definitely do need to work on your communication skills, but rather than being explicit I think you should focus on expressing things simply and clearly. A little humility wouldn't hurt as well.

haruspex said:
Since the problem statement says the cart starts at rest, you are in fact using the ground frame, so why not say so?
Exactly.
 
  • #36
Hello everyone, I must admit that I recently failed to find exact solution for equations I wrote above. I can of course make a brute-force or even gradient based solution, but exact analytical solution I can not, I am already spent too much time for it. So if you have some ready to show solution, I'll be very thankful for that.
 
  • #37
MaratZakirov said:
Hello everyone, I must admit that I recently failed to find exact solution for equations I wrote above. I can of course make a brute-force or even gradient based solution, but exact analytical solution I can not, I am already spent too much time for it. So if you have some ready to show solution, I'll be very thankful for that.
I find it easier to drop the vector form for a problem like this. I set the angle of the sail to rail as theta, incoming particle to sail as phi, departing angle to sail as psi, incoming speed u, departing speed u', cart's acquired speed v.
I got a rather messy quadratic in x where ##x=\frac{u'^2}{u^2}##.

Please post your working as far as you get.
 

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