Rail Car with a Sail in the Wind

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a physics problem involving a rail car with a sail and a colliding particle. The scenario includes considerations of momentum and energy conservation in a system where the rail car is fixed on straight rails. Participants are exploring the implications of the sail's orientation and the effects of normal forces on momentum conservation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss momentum conservation equations and question the applicability of these equations in the context of normal forces from the rails. There are attempts to clarify how the orientation of the sail affects the collision dynamics. Some participants express confusion about the conservation of momentum in different directions and the implications of the normal component of velocity.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants actively questioning assumptions about momentum conservation in the normal direction and exploring different models of collision dynamics. Some guidance has been offered regarding the treatment of parallel and normal components of momentum, but no consensus has been reached on the implications of these components for the collision scenario.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the complexities of working in different frames of reference, particularly regarding the initial conditions of the rail car and the particle's velocity. There is an emphasis on understanding the effects of normal forces and the nature of the collision, whether elastic or inelastic.

  • #31
MaratZakirov said:
Please prove your statement, it is totally not obvious to me.

But I agree that fewer claims is better, so let's write equations without it:
1. Momentum conservation parallel to sail (no friction with sail)
##m_p\vec{v}_{p \perp s} = m_p\vec{v}_{p \perp s}^1##
2. Momentum conservation along rail
##m_p\vec{v}_{p \parallel r} = m_p\vec{v}_{p \parallel r}^1 + m_c\vec{v}_c##
3. Restricton
##<\vec{v}_c, \vec{r}_{\perp}> = 0##
4. Energy conservation
##m_p\left| \vec{v}_p \right|^2 = m_p\left|\vec{v}_p^1\right|^2 + m_c\left|\vec{v}_c\right|^2##

Do you agree with these 4 euations?
Yes, those are the correct equations.
In the square-on case, your equation 1 gives ##m_p\vec{v}_{p \perp s} = m_p\vec{v}_{p \perp s}^1=0##. I.e., it bounces back along the same line.
 
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  • #32
MaratZakirov said:
The inertial frame of reference associated with the car before the collision is not accelerate.

Yes, but previously you did not specify "before the collision". That's what has confused some commentators, me included. I realized that's what you probably meant a while back so stopped drawing attention to it.
Since the problem statement says the cart starts at rest, you are in fact using the ground frame, so why not say so?
 
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  • #33
haruspex said:
Yes, but previously you did not specify "before the collision". That's what has confused some commentators, me included. I realized that's what you probably meant a while back so stopped drawing attention to it.
Since the problem statement says the cart starts at rest, you are in fact using the ground frame, so why not say so?
Let's look at my first post
MaratZakirov said:
All velocities are given for the inertial frame of reference associated with the cart before colliding with a particle
Maybe I should be more explicit?
 
  • #34
MaratZakirov said:
Let's look at my first post

Maybe I should be more explicit?
Ok, I missed that.
 
  • #35
MaratZakirov said:
Let's look at my first post

Maybe I should be more explicit?
I missed that too. You definitely do need to work on your communication skills, but rather than being explicit I think you should focus on expressing things simply and clearly. A little humility wouldn't hurt as well.

haruspex said:
Since the problem statement says the cart starts at rest, you are in fact using the ground frame, so why not say so?
Exactly.
 
  • #36
Hello everyone, I must admit that I recently failed to find exact solution for equations I wrote above. I can of course make a brute-force or even gradient based solution, but exact analytical solution I can not, I am already spent too much time for it. So if you have some ready to show solution, I'll be very thankful for that.
 
  • #37
MaratZakirov said:
Hello everyone, I must admit that I recently failed to find exact solution for equations I wrote above. I can of course make a brute-force or even gradient based solution, but exact analytical solution I can not, I am already spent too much time for it. So if you have some ready to show solution, I'll be very thankful for that.
I find it easier to drop the vector form for a problem like this. I set the angle of the sail to rail as theta, incoming particle to sail as phi, departing angle to sail as psi, incoming speed u, departing speed u', cart's acquired speed v.
I got a rather messy quadratic in x where ##x=\frac{u'^2}{u^2}##.

Please post your working as far as you get.
 

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