COVID Reaction to COVID-19 Vaccine (or what to be prepared for)

[Tom.G]

(This added about a month after this thread opened: It turns out I'm a real outlier for side effects to the vaccine, so don't let this post scare you off. My wife says every time I catch a cold or something that it hits me hard. Of course to me that is 'normal.' )

A few days ago a neighbor, my wife, and I received the 2^nd dose of the Moderna vaccine.

Here is a log of my after-effects. I'll try to keep this updated for any significant news.

Hour
0 - Received second dose of Moderna vaccine. As in the first one, didn't even feel the needle or the injection.
1 - Slight soreness in arm muscle.
2 - Sleepy, nap 2hrs, wakened by scam phone call.
6 - Sleepy, go to bed 5hrs early. Arm too sore to sleep on but otherwise not bothersome.
13 - Wake up shivering from cold. Room not cold, start of fever.
17 - Wake up hot. Throw off covers and back to sleep. (fever broke?)
20 - Wake up hot. Throw covers off. (fever broke?) get up after 14hrs sleep. (normal 8.5hrs.)
-- - Lack of energy, brain fog, low appetite.
24 - Temperature about 2.3°F high, but feeling somewhat better. Pulse 101 (usually 63 resting).
25 - Go out to pick up new eye glasses.
26 - Tired. Temperature about 2.7°F high.
-- - Read (some of) newspaper, check PF and Google News.
30 - Sleepy, bed time, again 5 hrs early. Pulse 93.
43 - Wake up, feel OK, temperature normal. Read rest of yesterdays newspaper. Pulse a normal 63.
48 - Wife and I do some shopping & errands.
52 - We are exhausted!
53 - Home, dinner, newspaper, PF .
56 - Tired, temperature normal, post this log. (& maybe check Google news)

edit:
Day 3 -
-- - Awoke 2hrs short of sleep. Hot, threw covers off but couldn't sleep. After 1/2 hr got up, all vitals normal. Appetite normal.
-- - Arm no longer sore.
-- - Tired, low energy, foggy brain all day.
/edit:

edit:
Day 4 -
-- - Normal sleep, mild low energy but got things done, mid afternoon 2hr. nap though.
-- - 'Loose bowels' much of the day, wife had that late yesterday.
/edit:

edit:
Day 18 -
-- - Mild hair loss noted when combing hair in the morning. This tapered off and resolved itself over 7 to 10 days.
/edit:

edit:
Day 30 - (approximately)
Finally back to 'normal' after about a month of low energy and extra sleep. These effects tapered off over the month until I realized "Hey! I feel OK."

Day 110 - (approximately)
Noticed my finger nails and toe nails are brittle and break easily. Nail trimming caused the nails to shatter rather than the usual clean cut. This happened for only one trimming and then returned to normal.
/edit:

Of the three of us, I had the heaviest reaction to the vaccine. We all slept the afternoon of the shot and all of us were too tired to do much of anything the following day. My wife had a mild fever of about 1°F and the neighbor claimed no fever.

None of us took anything for symptom relief.

In the end it shows that our immune systems REALLY recognize the spike protein on SARS-COV-2!
It also shows that I REALLY REALLY don't want the real thing.

Cheers,
Tom

p.s. Don't be too concerned about my 'high' fever, my normal body temp is 1 to 1.4 degrees F below 'normal'.

edit:
added pulse rates
/edit:

edit: Oct. 18, 2021
A study of common side effects from the vaccine has been posted. The most common is Fatigue (~67%), with Headache running a close second (~60%).

"An objective systematic comparison of the most common adverse events of COVID-19 vaccines"​

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.10.11.21264830v1.full.pdf

Or if you prefer a short synopsis,

"Researchers identify common side effects of three COVID-19 vaccines"​

https://www.news-medical.net/news/2...-side-effects-of-three-COVID-19-vaccines.aspx
/edit:

edit: Nov. 13, 2021
After 8 months, I got my Moderna Booster shot 4 days ago... Overall, a 'Piece of Cake!' Here are the details:
Hour
0 - Received the Moderna Booster, barely felt the needle and injection
24 - Slept 10 hrs., afternoon nap 1.5 hrs., mild low energy & brain fog, mild - moderate discomfort around injection site
48 - Slept 6 hrs., heart arrythemia, pulse varies between 59-72 within minutes, normal 63, self-corrects after several hours.. Bed 1hr early
72 - Slept 11.5 hrs., 8.5 hrs. is normal, otherwise I feel OK, arm soreness almost gone

Much better than after that second shot!
/edit
edit: Nov. 9, 2023
After having skipped the Summer version, I got the Fall version of the Moderna co-valent vaccine.

About 4pm on October 31 I received the the Moderna vaccine, lets call this Hour 0. I've had the Moderna vaccines in the past without serious side effects.

Hour 4: Very sleepy, go to bed

Hour ??: Sometime during the night I awaken shivering rather energetically. It shortly subsides and I get up for a bathroom run. That is when I find my legs won't straighten all the way. I make it to the bathroom with my legs half bent. When I try to stand up straight I lose muscle control and my knees go back to half folded.

Hour 12?: Dozing and nauseaus. Ask wife to bring a barf-bag (plastic shopping bag inside a paper shopping bag). She brings casserole dish. Several words later she brings a barf-bag. Fortunately it wasn't needed after all.

Hour 16: Get up after 12hrs. of sleep feeling low on energy and a bit foggy-brained.

Hour 20:I decide to read the vaccine Information Sheet I was given after the injection. On the bottom of the back page, in Section 5 What if there is a serious problem, it states "... If you see signs of a serious allergic reaction (hives, swelling of the face and throat, difficulty breathing, fast heartbeat, dizziness, or weakness), <underline added>[/size] call 9-1-1 and get the person to the nearest hospital.

Seek medical attention right away if the vaccinated person experiences chest pain, shortness of breath, or feelings of having a fast-beating, fluttering , or pounding heart after COVID-19 vaccination. ...

Check Pulse Rate and Blood Pressure. Pulse +30%, BP -20%.

I did not detect any heart involvment at the time.

After 4 days I was mostly back to normal, tiring a bit easily though and some minor brain-fog hanging around.

Here it is 10 days after the vax and I seem to be sleeping a bit more and perhaps some memory-recall problems.

I think I will change brands for the next vax!

Cheers,
Tom
/edit

edit:
See also the thread by @artis (https://www.physicsforums.com/posts/6616209) about possible longer term/delayed reactions after 1 year.
/edit

 

[atyy]

I had only very minor symptoms after a second dose of the Pfizer - just slight muscle ache lasting half a day at the injection site, less soreness than after the first time. But many of my colleagues had symptoms like yours after the second dose, so I was concerned and prophylactically dosed myself with lots of diet coke and bakkwa after my second jab, not sure if that worked.

 

[pinball1970]

A few days ago a neighbor, my wife, and I received the 2^nd dose of the Moderna vaccine.

Here is a log of my after-effects. I'll try to keep this updated for any significant news.

Hour
0 - Received second dose of Moderna vaccine. As in the first one, didn't even feel the needle or the injection.
1 - Slight soreness in arm muscle.
2 - Sleepy, nap 2hrs, wakened by scam phone call.
6 - Sleepy, go to bed 5hrs early. Arm too sore to sleep on but otherwise not bothersome.
13 - Wake up shivering from cold. Room not cold, start of fever.
17 - Wake up hot. Throw off covers and back to sleep. (fever broke?)
20 - Wake up hot. Throw covers off. (fever broke?) get up after 14hrs sleep. (normal 8.5hrs.)
-- - Lack of energy, brain fog, low appetite.
24 - Temperature about 2.3°F high, but feeling somewhat better. Pulse 101 (usually 63 resting).
25 - Go out to pick up new eye glasses.
26 - Tired. Temperature about 2.7°F high.
-- - Read (some of) newspaper, check PF and Google News.
30 - Sleepy, bed time, again 5 hrs early. Pulse 93.
43 - Wake up, feel OK, temperature normal. Read rest of yesterdays newspaper. Pulse a normal 63.
48 - Wife and I do some shopping & errands.
52 - We are exhausted!
53 - Home, dinner, newspaper, PF .
56 - Tired, temperature normal, post this log. (& maybe check Google news)

Of the three of us, I had the heaviest reaction to the vaccine. We all slept the afternoon of the shot and all of us were too tired to do much of anything the following day. My wife had a mild fever of about 1°F and the neighbor claimed no fever.

None of us took anything for symptom relief.

In the end it shows that our immune systems REALLY recognize the spike protein on SARS-COV-2!
It also shows that I REALLY REALLY don't want the real thing.

Cheers,
Tom

p.s. Don't be too concerned about my 'high' fever, my normal body temp is 1 to 1.4 degrees F below 'normal'.

edit:
added pulse rates
/edit:

My boss had fever/flu like symptoms but they were fairly short lived as per above. He did not mention heart rate First dose Phizer.

 

[Tom.G]

OP edited to add Day 3.

edit:
Day 3 -
-- - Awoke 2hrs short of sleep. Hot, threw covers off but couldn't sleep. After 1/2 hr got up, all vitals normal. Appetite normal.
-- - Arm no longer sore.
-- - Tired, low energy, foggy brain all day.
/edit:

 

[Torbert]

Six in my immediate family have received both doses. Small sample size but this is an anecdotal thread.
Two were bedridden the day after, too dizzy feverish to get around comfortably. One had an uncomfortable day but nothing incapacitating.
The other three were fine, minor symptoms with normal routines uninterrupted.
Race did not seem a factor, nor did age. No symptoms lasted over four days.

Bad reaction, 62 year old Gwich'in male.
Bad reaction, 29 year old Gwich'in French female.
Mild fever, 30 year old Japanese male.
Very mild fever, 32 and 35 year old Gwich'in Norwegian, female and male respectively.
Myself, sixty nine year old Norwegian male with not even a mild reaction.

No pattern in my family, seems about as random as it can be.

EDIT: This was the Moderna vaccine, no appreciable difference 1st and 2nd jabs. Mine was six week's spread.

 

[bhobba]

Be carefull about reports of reactions such as the concern about blood clotting. As explained here the number of people vaccinated that got blood clots was actually less than the general population:


So maybe it is protective against blood clots? Anyway as a bit of simple math shows this stopping vaccinations etc because of it does not stand up to scrutiny. There is zero doubt Covid has resulted in a significant amount of 'irrational' behavior.

Thanks
Bill

 

[Tom.G]

OP edited to add day 4:

edit:
Day 4 -
-- - Normal sleep, mild low energy but got things done, mid afternoon 2hr. nap though.
-- - 'Loose bowels' much of the day, wife had that late yesterday.
/edit:

 

[ChinleShale]

A related question came up when talking with my brother. If you get Covid-19 after the first vaccination shot but before the booster could one consider it to be a substitute for the booster?

One might ask whether the pathology from the post first shot Covid infection would be short term and mild but would shore up the immune response. If so, this would suggest that after the first shot you no longer need to worry.

 

[atyy]

A related question came up when talking with my brother. If you get Covid-19 after the first vaccination shot but before the booster could one consider it to be a substitute for the booster?

One might ask whether the pathology from the post first shot Covid infection would be short term and mild but would shore up the immune response. If so, this would suggest that after the first shot you no longer need to worry.

That seems to be the guideline in Singapore.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/new...delines-updated-moh-allergies-cancer-14414156
"People who have recovered from COVID-19 - and have not completed their vaccination - may receive a single dose of vaccine, in line with the revised guidelines.

"This applies to recovered persons who are unvaccinated and recovered persons who had received one dose of vaccine before being infected," said MOH."

 

[jtbell]

Here's my anecdotal data point from a guy in his late 60s who got the second dose of the Moderna vaccine yesterday morning.

All day yesterday I felt no symptoms except for a bit of local soreness in my arm at the injection site. I stayed up late, puttering on the computer, then went to bed.

I woke up today at about 6am, and thought, "wow, do I feel hot!" I checked my temperature and got 101.4 F. But I wasn't sweating, nor did I feel uncomfortable under my two blankets (it's been chilly at night), just "toastier" than usual. It actually felt rather pleasant. I went back to bed.

After I finally got out of bed around 8am, I was still hot, and felt a bit weak, and my upper arm hurt a bit more.

By late morning, my temperature had fallen to 100.6 F, but I now had a slight headache.

After lunch, I took a nap, and when I woke up around 3pm, my temperature was about 99.4.

At 7pm, my temperature was normal again, 98.6 F, with just a trace of headache.

Now, just before going to bed at midnight, I feel more or less normal except for some soreness in my arm.

So overall, my reaction mostly lasted about 18 hours.

Another data point: my wife, in her early 70s, got her second dose two weeks ago because she was in a higher priority group in my state. She started feeling the reaction the same day, it was stronger than mine, and she was pretty miserable for a couple of days. Then it trailed off during the following few days. So she was a bit anxious during the day when I got my shot. ("Are you feeling anything yet?...)

 

[dlgoff]

After my second dose of Moderna vaccine, I gave my arm a good work out rebuilding a blown down fence, so it wasn't as sore as the first dose. But after a few hours, I made several trips to the bathroom for diarrhea. I was told one possible side effect from the ramped up immune system would be feeling tired. They were right, I slept for 48 hours straight. But feel great now and happy I received the vaccine as I'm soon to be 74. I'll get the buster for the variants when it is available.

 

[Tom.G]

I'll get the buster for the variants when it is available.

Sounds appropriate!

 

[dlgoff]

Sounds appropriate!

I are an enganeer but can't spell it.

 

[hutchphd]

I got my second Moderna three days ago. First shot gave me a headache for a day and a little stomach upset day 3 maybe. Second shot gave me a mild 1F fever day 2 and associated malaise...I feel good today, and presume that is the end of it. Not much agita for the benefit. Thanks to Hamilton Bennett and several seminal thinkers who brought this miracle to fruition.

 

[Astronuc]

I have an appointment this week, either Pfizer or Moderna. I'll report symptoms, if any.

My wife received the Pfizer shots in early Feb and March. She had no adverse reaction, and she just turned 70.

 

[bhobba]

Heavens knows when I will be getting it. All phase 1a, the most critical group, were supposed to be done by now with the Pfizer vaccine - that is about 600,000 - but only a little under half have been done. Anyway they are going ahead from today with phase 1b to which I belong. But you can't get a booking for love or money - they all went quickly when bookings were open. I personally went to my doctor last week to get some prescriptions and book in. He said forget it - next week they are getting just 80 doses and it will be ramping up over the coming weeks. The clinic is prioritising those over 80 with comorbidities first - although I doubt there are too many without comorbidities over 80 anyway. See or ring him in a few weeks to get a firm date. But complicating this, now is when here in Aus you get the flu vaccine and you need to have at least 2 weeks between it and the Covid vaccine. Further complications are some of the worst flooding ever experienced in Aus delaying arrival, european countries refusing to honor purchases, the appalling situation in Papua New Guinea (PNG) which consequently has vaccine priority. However on the positive side we are now producing 1 million doses per week of the Oxford vaccine down in Melbourne. In practical terms I will be seeing my doctor next month to get the Flu shot and and see if I can book in for the Oxford vaccine sometime at least 2 weeks after that. You can get the flu shot from today, but it is recommended to get it mid April because it has maximum potency 4 months after getting it - allowing 2 weeks for immunity to build after vaccination.

Thanks
Bill

 

[Astronuc]

All phase 1a, the most critical group, were supposed to be done by now with the Pfizer vaccine - that is about 600,000 - but only a little under half have been done. Anyway they are going ahead from today with phase 1b to which I belong. But you can't get a booking for love or money - they all went quickly when bookings were open.

Much the same experience I've been having, but I was finally able to find an appointment, although it is about 35 miles away from home, rather than at a facility in the neighborhood.

I had signed up (as instructed) for an appointment the day before I was officially eligible. When I officially became eligible the next day I visited the website as instructed and found that there were no appointments available in my area for the next three days. A week later, I received a notification (with a link) on my phone. I immediately went to the site (link) and received the same message that appointments were unavailable. So I sent them a message to that effect.

I finally got an appointment through a circuitous route online. My son also got an appointment, and it is 40 miles away in a different direction from where I need to go. My wife found an appointment about 60 miles away, and others we know traveled more than 100 miles, because some areas got the vaccine and many others didn't.

 

[pinball1970]

OXFORD/ Astra Zeneca
I have rejigged this so its quicker to read. Probably no more additions after 24th March

General information

54 years old in decent shape perhaps 5-7 lbs over weight BMI 25.
Potential Underlying asthma treated with Beclometasone every day and Salbutamol when required

22st March

3.pm first jab
7pm Headache lowish energy. I took a paracetamol and feel a lot better.
10pm Restless night but I do not think I had much of a temperature, not too hot to touch or sweats

23nd March

6.30am. Temp in range (non-contact forehead thermometer) Low energy today from getting up at appetite good, no head ache to speak of just a wiped out feeling
3pm Legs ache ( 24 hours since jab) Very low energy
6pm. Wiped out, bed, Paracetamol.
6pm- early hours. Fitful broken sleep. Sweats, fever, shivers, aches. Like flu (I had flu 2010 ish)

24th March

6.30am. Temp 37°C aching low energy but appetite good.

In general after the 24 hour period is where I felt pretty ill. Paracetamol and pint of water by the bed and ride it out.
If you are working/ commuting book 2 days off, so e.g. Jab Monday morning book Tue/Wed off. I was not able to do this so perhaps my energy other symptoms were a little bit worse.

 

[Astronuc]

I have an appointment this week, either Pfizer or Moderna. I'll report symptoms, if any.

My wife received the Pfizer shots in early Feb and March. She had no adverse reaction, and she just turned 70.

I just got the first Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine about two hours ago. Second shot is scheduled a month (~30 days) later.

Hour
0 A tiny bit of soreness during the first 5 minutes, but it subsided quickly, and no soreness after 15 minutes. Arm felt a bit warm, but that too has dissipated.
1 Feel fine, no soreness.
2 Not even tired.

A close friend had his second Pfizer shot yesterday. He commented, "Approximately 24 hours after receiving the second dose of my Covid vaccine I’ve got a slightly sore arm and I’m feeling slightly sluggish." He had little reaction after the first shot, so this seems consistent with the 2nd shot inducing some immune response in the body.

Update: Hour 4 - no soreness, no fatigue. I think most friends and acquaintances received the Pfizer vaccine, most seem to have no significant symptoms, at least with the first shot. I will try to find out who got the Moderna vaccine to see if there is more prevalence for symptoms of discomfort or reaction.

Update: Hour 8 - no soreness, no fatigue. I feel fine.
My friend commented that his wife and daughters had the Moderna vaccines. Wife had no symptoms, older daughter and son-in-law had moderate symptoms, and younger daughter had mild symptoms. So it seems that Moderna will likely produce symptoms, but sample size is so far limited, and this is anecdotal.

Update: Hour 12 - a little tenderness at the site of the vaccination injection, but no significant soreness, and no fatigue. I'm assuming this is a normal response to the first injection.

 

[Astronuc]

Hour 17 - woke up at 0400, feeling a bit warm, but no fever or chills, so I decided to check the eruption of Geldingadalir in Iceland. What else would a PFer do at 0400. The injection site is a bit sore, but otherwise I feel normal. Went back to sleep around hour 18.

Hour 22 - woke up again, and feel more or less normal.

Hour 36 - no soreness, no fatigue. It's been a normal day.

 

[Laroxe]

It does seem that mild adverse effects are fairly common. From what I can make out the second dose is more likely to cause side effects than the first and younger people are more likely to experience them. It may be that the Moderna vaccine causes more because it uses a higher dose than the Pfizer and the timing does seem important with all of the vaccines.

The first dose does provide significant protection, though really people need to wait at least around 3 weeks for the immune system to get into gear, after that the protection seems to continue to improve for quite some time. Even after a single dose after 3 weeks people rarely become seriously ill, in the Astra Zenica data from Scotland after many thousands of people were vaccinated, while there were some symptomatic cases, these were uncommon and none of the vaccinated group were hospitalised or died from Covid 19. The current UK case numbers and deaths appear to confirm the effectiveness of their approach.

I had my first dose of the AZ vaccine and had a mild arm ache on the second day.

 

[BillTre]

I had my first dose of the AZ vaccine and had a mild arm ache on the second day.

Me too.

 

[bhobba]

It does seem that mild adverse effects are fairly common.

Oh yes. Not sure if it is worse or better than the flu jab but it is well known that often has mild reactions as well. I always get a sore arm for a week, and one year actually got a mild dose of the flu. But my doctor was not so sure - he said it could just be a cold and a coincidence you got it after the vaccine - but either way it was very mild. Here in Brisbane we are now in lockdown whose root cause seems to be unvaccinated front line workers spreading it. The reason that happened is evidently the number of frontline workers, who all get the Pfizer vaccine, needing a couple of days to get over reactions meant they could not vaccinate them all in a hurry even though they had enough vaccines. Hence they had to stager it. Fair enough. But they still let the unvaccinated workers continue to do high risk tasks. So we are now in lockdown. After the fact it has been announced no unvaccinated worker will do any high risk work. Better late than never I suppose.

Thanks
Bill

 

[Laroxe]

Oh yes. Not sure if it is worse or better than the flu jab but it is well known that often has mild reactions as well. I always get a sore arm for a week, and one year actually got a mild dose of the flu. But my doctor was not so sure - he said it could just be a cold and a coincidence you got it after the vaccine - but either way it was very mild. Here in Brisbane we are now in lockdown whose root cause seems to be unvaccinated front line workers spreading it. The reason that happened is evidently the number of frontline workers, who all get the Pfizer vaccine, needing a couple of days to get over reactions meant they could not vaccinate them all in a hurry even though they had enough vaccines. Hence they had to stager it. Fair enough. But they still let the unvaccinated workers continue to do high risk tasks. So we are now in lockdown. After the fact it has been announced no unvaccinated worker will do any high risk work. Better late than never I suppose.

Thanks
Bill

With the flu vaccine the virus is inactivated and unable to give you flu, but of course you still get the immune reactance. They use a live attenuated virus in the nasal spay vaccine but I understand they are a bit less popular these days. The problem with vaccinating all the frontline workers is not really in the possibility of side effects, its the fact that it takes 2-3 weeks to have a protective effects. This means that you will be left with lots of unprotected people in those jobs,but at least that's the group being targeted first, with the low incidence you should catch up fairly easily. Hopefully anyway.

 

[phinds]

My wife and I, both elderly and neither in the best of health, got both shots and for all of our shots the only reaction was a very mild soreness in our arms later in the day of the shot and early the next day and that was it.

Our son, mid-30's, felt terrible the next day after the 2nd shot but was fully recovered by the day after that. His wife, same age, had the same reaction my wife and I did.

It seems to be a complete crap-shoot as to whether you get an adverse reaction, although I have heard both anecdotally and from a pharmacist that younger folks have more of a tendency towards bad reactions for a day or two after the 2nd shot (and that seems to apply both the the Pfizer and the Moderna)

 

[bhobba]

The problem with vaccinating all the frontline workers is not really in the possibility of side effects, its the fact that it takes 2-3 weeks to have a protective effects.

Yes - as was pointed out in another thread. Really you need to 'lockdown' the hospital until those vaccinated have had enough time for immunity to build. That is of course very disruptive, but it is what ended up happening anyway to bring the current outbreak under control. Of course you would plan it so there is still capacity available during that time. It has been mandated now front line workers must be vaccinated - 86% have now been vaccinated so it can be done. I just would have liked it planned so it could have happened sooner.

Thanks
Bill

 

[vela]

It does seem that mild adverse effects are fairly common. From what I can make out the second dose is more likely to cause side effects than the first and younger people are more likely to experience them.

That's what I've heard too. Younger people tend to have a more robust immune response than older people, so they're more likely to experience side effects from the second shot.

My mom, who is in her 80s, got the Pfizer vaccine, and her only symptom was a sore arm, particularly after the second dose. A friend who's in her 20s said the second dose of Pfizer hit her "like a train."

I got the first dose of the Moderna vaccine 22 days ago. My arm was mildly sore the next day or two. My second dose is scheduled for Tuesday.

 

[Klystron]

I received first dose of Pfizer early March in Nevada the same time my younger sister received same in California. Both in our sixties. Mild side effects including increased sleepiness for two days. We both noticed increased appetite. Received second Pfizer dose three weeks later. Sister felt sleepy. I felt energized and alert including enhanced performance at physical therapy for ~5 days. Feel normal now but retain exercise performance levels. I may have reported this in another vaccination thread.

FTR I have numerous injuries and live with arthritis, heart and spine defects but my metabolic health, diet and lifestyle are healthy. Our swimming pools are being inspected and should open tomorrow 1 April. Yes!

 

[berkeman]

Our swimming pools are being inspected and should open tomorrow 1 April. Yes!

Don't fall for that old joke!

 

[Astronuc]

My son got Moderna today during the middle of the work day. He returned to work and felt fine. This evening though, he felt fatigued. On the other hand, he was up a 6 am to get ready for work, and he informed me that the dog kept him awake last night. So I don't know if it was lack of sleep or the vaccination that resulted in him being tired.

I had a conversation with several colleagues today. Some have received Pfizer and some Moderna, among them and other folks they know, the general consensus is that folks getting Moderna generally have stronger side-effects than those getting Pfizer, which is consistent with many folks I know. Almost universally, the second shot produces a stronger reaction. Some folks reported feeling wiped out the day following the second vaccination.

Edit/Update: My son was less tired after a brief nap yesterday afternoon/evening, so it his tiredness may have been related to the dog disturbing his sleep the night before. He seemed fine last night.

Edit/Udate2: My son went to work this morning. The arm was sore at the site of the injection, but he was otherwise fine.

 

[symbolipoint]

Some member said in one of the posts on the topic:

So overall, my reaction mostly lasted about 18 hours.

So many of us are looking forward to the side effects, and as bad as they may be, are better than having the real disease. Fever, chills, headache, aches/pains around the body, fatigue - but should be less than a day.

Something to correct in the quote: That poster mistook "side effects" as "reactions". They are not the same. Reactions are what might or might not happen during the first few minutes after being vaccinated, so the vaccinee must stay at the vaccination location for half-hour before leaving, in case reactions need to be treated.

Some few or several HOURS later, the fever or chills or aches and pains and fatigue - those are examples of "side effects".

 

[phinds]

those are examples of "side effects".

I will never forget my first formal introduction to "side effects". I was early on working for Medco, a pharma distribution company and was in the can reading the weekly newsletter when I ran across a statement that one of the medications had a "side effect" of death.

I immediately went to the VP I was working for and said I didn't see how death could be a mere "side effect". She asked me if I thought the medicine was DESIGNED to kill people and of course I said no, so she said "well, see ... if it DOES kill someone, that's a side effect".

 

[symbolipoint]

I will never forget my first formal introduction to "side effects". I was early on working for Medco, a pharma distribution company and was in the can reading the weekly newsletter when I ran across a statement that one of the medications had a "side effect" of death.

I immediately went to the VP I was working for and said I didn't see how death could be a mere "side effect". She asked me if I thought the medicine was DESIGNED to kill people and of course I said no, so she said "well, see ... if it DOES kill someone, that's a side effect".

Well,... at least it is not a "reaction".

 

[vela]

So many of us are looking forward to the side effects, and as bad as they may be, are better than having the real disease. Fever, chills, headache, aches/pains around the body, fatigue - but should be less than a day.

"Looking forward" is probably not the best choice of wording. Perhaps "anticipating" or "expecting"?

 

[phinds]

"Looking forward" is probably not the best choice of wording. Perhaps "anticipating" or "expecting"?

How about "resigned to" ?

 

[symbolipoint]

How about "resigned to" ?

"Looking forward" is probably not the best choice of wording. Perhaps "anticipating" or "expecting"?

How about "resigned to" ?

I was sensing some artistic intent during and after I wrote that, and you's are correct that my wording is not really very perfect for the truth; but for now, I like to leave what I wrote just the way I wrote it.

 

[vela]

I received the second dose of Moderna yesterday morning and have had only mild side effects. Yesterday, my arm was sore, much more than after the first shot. I had a mild headache and fell asleep pretty early. Today, there was still some soreness in my arm, but it's not noticeable now unless I press on my upper arm.

 

[Janus]

My wife has had both shots of the Pfizer and had little side-effects, a bit of a sore arm and tired the next day after the 2nd one. ( she was a bit nervous, as she normally gets a reaction just from a Flu shot.)
I'm scheduled for my first shot next Wed. We'll see how it goes. ( It would be ironic if I have more severe side-effects than my wife, as I tend to be the opposite in that regard. I've never gotten a sore arm even after a tetanus shot.)

 

[Laroxe]

Its strange the way in which people become obsessed with the adverse events (A.E.) of vaccines, particularly new ones. It is however very difficult to get a real idea about the frequency of real adverse effects it seems that if you don't include local injection site pain and reactogenicity symptoms, in the studies, the rates are largely the same between the vaccine and placebo groups.

The big concern now is in the possible link with blood clots, particularly Cerebral Venous Thrombosis, a very rare but dangerous condition. While it seems the possibility of an increased risk of thrombosis generally has largely been discounted, there being no increases in the incidence following vaccination so the spotlight has fallen onto CVT. Unfortunately, this is rare and until now it has generated little interest, it is simply one of the varieties of causes of a stroke and has no great impact on clinical management. Its now considered that the incidence is higher post vaccination than in the general population but the comparison numbers used are rather unreliable and based on newer diagnostic technologies. In fact pre covid, in the studies available, there was already an awareness that this was far more common than previously thought. The current media panic is based on an estimated incidence of CVST in the uk of approx 75 per 20,000,000 people/doses of AZ, only this vaccine is mentioned, despite similar cases being associated with other vaccines and the current investigation of the J&J vaccine following a death.

However in this study of 19 hospitals in the Netherlands, data on CVST were collected between Jan 2008 and Dec 2010 using medical records and National Statistics. Their findings show an overall incidence of 1.32 per 100000 per year, is more than three times higher than the number associated with cases following the AZ vaccine
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/STROKEAHA.112.671453

This study (2005-2011) from Adelaide using the 2011 census data and cases identified by hospitalised discharge codes estimates the risk at around 78.5 per 5,000,000.
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/STROKEAHA.116.013617

This Norwegian review states "Recent (pre 2018) studies have reported an incidence of 1-1.5 per thousand per year.". They also say, " The condition is three times more common in women of reproductive age than in men, probably owing to pregnancy the use of oral contraceptives"
https://tidsskriftet.no/en/2018/08/...rombosis-epidemiology-diagnosis-and-treatment

This is important because despite the claims of politicians, science has little impact on policy decisions and in fact most of the scientific advisory groups don't feel that the evidence about the risk of blood clots, justifies controlling the use of any vaccines. Decisions about policy are often effected by wider concerns like the economy, political lobbying and issues like Brexit. Publicity in the media has had a huge effect on public behaviour and is having a huge effect on the vaccination campaigns. It also has a huge effect on peoples perception of vaccine effects, the media reporting of the possible risks of CVT has lead to a huge increase in people seeking medical attention for minor adverse events. Expectations and anxiety often guide peoples experience of adverse events as they focus on symptoms that, if they occurred as part of normal life, might not even be noticed.
My thanks to Barbara Anne Hastings-Asatourian, for all the information and for all the work she does around Covid - for free.

 

[russ_watters]

Its strange the way in which people become obsessed with the adverse events (A.E.) of vaccines, particularly new ones...

The big concern now is in the possible link with blood clots, particularly Cerebral Venous Thrombosis, a very rare but dangerous condition. While it seems the possibility of an increased risk of thrombosis generally has largely been discounted, there being no increases in the incidence following vaccination so the spotlight has fallen onto CVT...

The current media panic is based on an estimated incidence of CVST in the uk of approx 75 per 20,000,000 people/doses of AZ, only this vaccine is mentioned, despite similar cases being associated with other vaccines and the current investigation of the J&J vaccine following a death.

However in this study of 19 hospitals in the Netherlands, data on CVST were collected between Jan 2008 and Dec 2010 using medical records and National Statistics. Their findings show an overall incidence of 1.32 per 100000 per year, is more than three times higher than the number associated with cases following the AZ vaccine

This study (2005-2011) from Adelaide using the 2011 census data and cases identified by hospitalised discharge codes estimates the risk at around 78.5 per 5,000,000.

This Norwegian review states "Recent (pre 2018) studies have reported an incidence of 1-1.5 per thousand per year.". They also say, " The condition is three times more common in women of reproductive age than in men, probably owing to pregnancy the use of oral contraceptives"

This is important because despite the claims of politicians, science has little impact on policy decisions and in fact most of the scientific advisory groups don't feel that the evidence about the risk of blood clots, justifies controlling the use of any vaccines.

[sigh]

The Food and Drug Administration and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention are recommending the U.S. pause on using the Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine after reports of blood clots in individuals who received the vaccine...

The health agencies released a statement Tuesday morning recommending the pause “out of an abundance of caution,” saying blood clots still seem to be “extremely rare.” So far, the CDC and FDA are reviewing six reported cases in the U.S.

All six recipients were women between the ages of 18 and 48, with symptoms occurring 6 to 13 days after vaccination, according to the statement. One woman died and one has been hospitalized in critical condition, the New York Times reported....

The type of blood clot reported in individuals who have received the J&J vaccine is called cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (CVST)...

A news conference is scheduled for 10 a.m.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...vaccine-after-reports-blood-clots/7200817002/

I jumped on my new eligibility early this morning and scheduled the first vaccine I could get: a J&J shot tomorrow afternoon. The pause hasn't actually happened yet as far as I know, but I'll be in limbo while this gets sorted out/until then. I don't want to be an appointment hog, but I'm going to look for Pfizer/Moderna alternatives.

 

[Ygggdrasil]

Its strange the way in which people become obsessed with the adverse events (A.E.) of vaccines, particularly new ones. It is however very difficult to get a real idea about the frequency of real adverse effects it seems that if you don't include local injection site pain and reactogenicity symptoms, in the studies, the rates are largely the same between the vaccine and placebo groups.

The big concern now is in the possible link with blood clots, particularly Cerebral Venous Thrombosis, a very rare but dangerous condition. While it seems the possibility of an increased risk of thrombosis generally has largely been discounted, there being no increases in the incidence following vaccination so the spotlight has fallen onto CVT. Unfortunately, this is rare and until now it has generated little interest, it is simply one of the varieties of causes of a stroke and has no great impact on clinical management. Its now considered that the incidence is higher post vaccination than in the general population but the comparison numbers used are rather unreliable and based on newer diagnostic technologies. In fact pre covid, in the studies available, there was already an awareness that this was far more common than previously thought. The current media panic is based on an estimated incidence of CVST in the uk of approx 75 per 20,000,000 people/doses of AZ, only this vaccine is mentioned, despite similar cases being associated with other vaccines and the current investigation of the J&J vaccine following a death.

However in this study of 19 hospitals in the Netherlands, data on CVST were collected between Jan 2008 and Dec 2010 using medical records and National Statistics. Their findings show an overall incidence of 1.32 per 100000 per year, is more than three times higher than the number associated with cases following the AZ vaccine
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/STROKEAHA.112.671453

This study (2005-2011) from Adelaide using the 2011 census data and cases identified by hospitalised discharge codes estimates the risk at around 78.5 per 5,000,000.
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/STROKEAHA.116.013617

This Norwegian review states "Recent (pre 2018) studies have reported an incidence of 1-1.5 per thousand per year.". They also say, " The condition is three times more common in women of reproductive age than in men, probably owing to pregnancy the use of oral contraceptives"
https://tidsskriftet.no/en/2018/08/...rombosis-epidemiology-diagnosis-and-treatment

This is important because despite the claims of politicians, science has little impact on policy decisions and in fact most of the scientific advisory groups don't feel that the evidence about the risk of blood clots, justifies controlling the use of any vaccines. Decisions about policy are often effected by wider concerns like the economy, political lobbying and issues like Brexit. Publicity in the media has had a huge effect on public behaviour and is having a huge effect on the vaccination campaigns. It also has a huge effect on peoples perception of vaccine effects, the media reporting of the possible risks of CVT has lead to a huge increase in people seeking medical attention for minor adverse events. Expectations and anxiety often guide peoples experience of adverse events as they focus on symptoms that, if they occurred as part of normal life, might not even be noticed.
My thanks to Barbara Anne Hastings-Asatourian, for all the information and for all the work she does around Covid - for free.

It's important to note that the specific type of blood clotting seen in the people receiving the AstraZeneca vaccine is very unusual and has certain characteristics (e.g. they occur in unusual locations and are associated with low platelet levels and antibodies against PF4-Heparin) that make it look much different than the typical type of blood clots observed in the general population (see the two recent NEJM case studies linked below for characterization of the clotting):

Thrombotic Thrombocytopenia after ChAdOx1 nCov-19 Vaccination
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2104840

Thrombosis and Thrombocytopenia after ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 Vaccination
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2104882

Science magazine reports at least 222 suspected cases (30 fatalities) among the 34 million that have received the first dose. Given that these occur within 2 weeks of vaccination, the rate of CVST you quote for the Netherlands study (1.32 per 100,000 per year), we would only expect to see ~17 cases in the two weeks following vaccination of 34 million.

As you note then total rate of blood clotting is similar between the general population and people taking other COVID-19 vaccines, but this figure is somewhat misleading as the total rate of blood clotting is much higher than the incidence of the rare AstraZeneca-vaccine induced type of clotting. The most common type of blood clotting occurs at a rate of 1-2 per 1,000 people each year; adding an additional ~6 per million to that rate will not make an appreciable impact on the overall incidence of blood clotting.

Given these data (epidemiological data suggesting an increased rate of severe blood clotting and the specific features of the clotting that suggest that it is vaccine-induced), the European Medicines Agency recently concluded that the unusual blood clots are indeed a side effect of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine, but note that the condition is rare and in most cases the benefits of the vaccine outweigh the risks. Similarly (as @russ_watters noted above), given observation of a small number of similar clot among those getting the Johnson & Johnson vaccine in the US, the FDA has recommended pausing the use of the J&J vaccine (if not just to give providers time to prepare and spread information about how to recognize potential signs of these clots and how to treat them, which is different than other clots due to the clots being associated with low platelet levels).

Given the observation of these clots among people taking the AstraZeneca vaccine and J&J vaccine (both adenoviral vector vaccines) but not among those taking the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines (the mRNA vaccines) or among those who had COVID, it is likely that the clotting issue is associated with adenoviral vectored vacines and not general vaccination against COVID-19 (see this news article from Science for more discussion).

I agree that the condition is rare enough that it is not clear whether this would tip the risk-benefit equation is favor of discontinuing use of the vaccine, though further data would be helpful.

See also my post discussing this issue in another PF thread: https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/oxford-vaccine-clotting.1001834/post-6478992

 

[TeethWhitener]

PSA: If you’re getting the vaccine soon in the US, I would encourage you to sign up for v-safe:
https://vsafe.cdc.gov/en/
It’s the CDC’s adverse events and side effects tracker. They do periodic symptom check-ins to track side effects from all the vaccines currently approved in the US.

 

[symbolipoint]

PSA: If you’re getting the vaccine soon in the US, I would encourage you to sign up for v-safe:
https://vsafe.cdc.gov/en/
It’s the CDC’s adverse events and side effects tracker. They do periodic symptom check-ins to track side effects from all the vaccines currently approved in the US.

I checked the website briefly.
Not everyone has a smartphone.
Not everyone wants to be pushed into having a smartphone.

Outside of that, an organized OFFICIAL method to report side effects would be a good idea.

 

[Tom.G]

OP edited to add Day 18.

Day 18 -
-- - Mild hair loss noted when combing hair in the morning. This tapered off and resolved itself over 7 to 10 days.
/edit:

 

[Ygggdrasil]

I checked the website briefly.
Not everyone has a smartphone.
Not everyone wants to be pushed into having a smartphone.

Outside of that, an organized OFFICIAL method to report side effects would be a good idea.

Why do you assume that the smartphone app is the only way to report side effects and adverse events?

Here's the relevant section of the Pfizer EUA (given out to everyone who receives the Pfizer vaccination):

WHAT SHOULD I DO ABOUT SIDE EFFECTS?
If you experience a severe allergic reaction, call 9-1-1, or go to the nearest hospital.

Call the vaccination provider or your healthcare provider if you have any side effects that bother you or do not go away.

Report vaccine side effects to FDA/CDC Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS). The VAERS toll-free number is 1-800-822-7967 or report online to https://vaers.hhs.gov/reportevent.html. Please include “Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine EUA” in the first line of box #18 of the report form.

In addition, you can report side effects to Pfizer Inc. at the contact information provided below.
Website Fax number Telephone number
www.pfizersafetyreporting.com 1-866-635-8337 1-800-438-1985

You may also be given an option to enroll in v-safe. V-safe is a new voluntary smartphone-based tool that uses text messaging and web surveys to check in with people who have been vaccinated to identify potential side effects after COVID-19 vaccination. V-safe asks questions that help CDC monitor the safety of COVID-19 vaccines. V-safe also provides second-dose reminders if needed and live telephone follow-up by CDC if participants report a significant health impact following COVID-19 vaccination. For more information on how to sign up, visit: www.cdc.gov/vsafe.

As one would expect, there are plenty of different ways to report adverse events from telephone to website submission form to smarphone app.

In addition to patients reporting adverse events, healthcare providers and vaccine manufacturers are required to report certain adverse events that come to their attention to the FDA/CDC via VAERS.

 

[symbolipoint]

Why do you assume that the smartphone app is the only way to report side effects and adverse events?

Here's the relevant section of the Pfizer EUA (given out to everyone who receives the Pfizer vaccination):
As one would expect, there are plenty of different ways to report adverse events from telephone to website submission form to smarphone app.

In addition to patients reporting adverse events, healthcare providers and vaccine manufacturers are required to report certain adverse events that come to their attention to the FDA/CDC via VAERS.

The vsafe site is not enough. Fine for those with a smartphone but other methods needed for many or some other people.

I looked at the vsafe site briefly; and then another look at clicked one of the links in it, but that seemed to point again only the the use of the vsafe site.

 

[TeethWhitener]

The vsafe site is not enough. Fine for those with a smartphone but other methods needed for many or some other people.

I looked at the vsafe site briefly; and then another look at clicked one of the links in it, but that seemed to point again only the the use of the vsafe site.

There are over 280 million smartphone users in the US, out of a population of about 330 million, for a coverage rate of about 80%. Also of note, there are about 25 million children under 5 in the US. Assuming that very few of those kids own smartphones, that leaves about 10% of the US population not potentially covered by v-safe. You’re welcome to suggest your own solution, [edited out snark] I apologize for any offense, @symbolipoint. This is an important thread and I don’t want to derail it with my bad attitude.

 

[symbolipoint]

There are over 280 million smartphone users in the US, out of a population of about 330 million, for a coverage rate of about 80%. Also of note, there are about 25 million children under 5 in the US. Assuming that very few of those kids own smartphones, that leaves about 10% of the US population not potentially covered by v-safe. You’re welcome to suggest your own solution, but personally I’m tired of doing your homework for you. Maybe I’ll report it as a side effect on my next v-safe check-in.

Nobody needs vsafe. Only they need to use the literature they receive upon being vaccinated, and find contact information on these documents to find who to or where to report side effects. There is no other "Homework" to do.

 

[russ_watters]

PSA: If you’re getting the vaccine soon in the US, I would encourage you to sign up for v-safe:
https://vsafe.cdc.gov/en/
It’s the CDC’s adverse events and side effects tracker. They do periodic symptom check-ins to track side effects from all the vaccines currently approved in the US.

I checked the website briefly.
Not everyone has a smartphone.
Not everyone wants to be pushed into having a smartphone.

That is an unnecessary reaction. For voluntary reporting (of anything), the goal is to get usable responses from as many people as possible*. That means choosing methods that reach the most people in ways that are easiest/most comfortable for the respondents, while maximizing the limited resources of the survey-takers. Yes, obviously, choosing certain methods of reaching people excludes people who don't have access to those methods. It's choices on both sides, none of which are intentional personal affronts.

Point of order, though; while the website says "V-safe is a smartphone-based tool..." I actually don't think that is accurate. As far as I can tell, it's an SMS-based tool. Searching the Google app-store, I don't see a V-safe app, and signing-up for the service the only thing I see that it's going to do is provide text-based alerts/communication. And one can get SMS via a voip service without even a cell phone or smart-phone if they want it (not "pushing", just pointing it out).

Outside of that, an organized OFFICIAL method to report side effects would be a good idea.

What does that mean? The CDC seems like a pretty official organization to me.

*Also, participation rates on such things tend to be very low regardless of approach, which disappoints me. I'm the opposite, and I know I'm the outlier, not the norm. For example, the COVID Alert PA app I have on my smartphone says it has had 871,000 "users since launch", out of a PA population of 12.8 million, or about 6%.

 

[Ygggdrasil]

The vsafe site is not enough. Fine for those with a smartphone but other methods needed for many or some other people.

I looked at the vsafe site briefly; and then another look at clicked one of the links in it, but that seemed to point again only the the use of the vsafe site.

Did you read my post? When I got my vaccine, I was given a sheet of paper (essentially identical to the pdf here), which that shows multiple ways of reporting side effects to the CDC including a two different phone numbers, two different websites, a fax number (talk about methods that not a lot of people will have access to) and the V-safe app. There are plenty of options available to report side effects to the FDA/CDC and to the vaccine manufacturer.

The V-safe site linked in the Pfizer EUA (www.cdc.gov/vsafe.) includes a link to the CDC Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System site, at which users can report side effects and adverse events via an online form or writeable pdf (presumably people accessing a website would have the ability to submit a report via one of these two methods).