Reading a pressure vs enthelpy graph

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around interpreting a pressure versus enthalpy graph for refrigerant 141b, specifically how to determine enthalpy at a given pressure and the implications of saturation states on this determination. The scope includes conceptual understanding and technical application of thermodynamic properties.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about how to determine where to stop when moving horizontally from a given pressure value on the graph to find enthalpy.
  • Another participant suggests that knowing either temperature, entropy, or another physical value along with pressure can help locate the state point on the chart.
  • A participant questions whether the determination of the state point is influenced by whether the substance is in the saturation liquid or saturation vapor state.
  • It is proposed that in the saturated region, the degree of saturation must also be known to define the state point accurately, which ranges from 0 (no vapor) to 1 (all vapor).
  • Another participant emphasizes that two properties are necessary to derive all other properties from the property curve, noting that outside the saturation region, pressure and temperature are independent, while inside, they are dependent.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the need for multiple properties to define a state point, but there is some contention regarding the role of saturation states and how they affect the relationship between pressure and temperature.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about the saturation region and the definitions of properties, which may affect the clarity of the discussion.

Anony-mouse
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ive got a pressure vs enthalpy graph which is based on the data for refrigerant 141b. If I've got a given pressure, and i want to find the enthalpy at that pressure how do i know where to stop when going along horizontally from a given pressure value?
 
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Hi there:

If you know you pressure value, by knowing either temperature, entropy or some other physical value, you should be able to locate your state point on the chart.

With two given values, a state point is defined ...

Thanks,

Gordan
 
i see, I've got temperature values, but does the state point also depend on whether it is saturation liquid or saturation vapour?
 
Hi there:

If you are in the saturated are, in addition to pressure and temperature values, you need to know the degree of saturation. It goes from 0 to 1 (no vapor to all vapor) -- this should define your state point. Just read the other state physical values from your chart.

Thanks,

Gordan
 
anony mouse, you need 2 properties to get all the properties from any such property curve. if its outside the saturation region, P and T are independent. But inside, P and T are dependent, so required states change. But in any case, one needs at least 2 properties to define everything
 

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