Reading Goldstein's Classical Mechanics as an Undergraduate

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the challenges and experiences of undergraduate students reading Goldstein's Classical Mechanics alongside other texts like Taylor and Marion/Thornton. Participants share their perspectives on the appropriateness of Goldstein for undergraduates, the clarity of its content, and the relevance of specific concepts such as D'Alembert's Principle and non-holonomic constraints.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express difficulty in grasping the concepts in Goldstein, noting it is primarily a graduate-level text, while others have used it as an advanced undergraduate resource.
  • One participant suggests revisiting the undergraduate course material before delving into Goldstein, emphasizing the importance of foundational understanding.
  • Several participants argue that a solid undergraduate education can be achieved without Goldstein, citing Marion as a sufficient alternative.
  • Concerns are raised about the clarity of Goldstein's treatment of holonomic constraints and virtual work, with some participants suggesting that these sections may be misleading.
  • There is mention of the "vakonomic" formula in Goldstein, with some uncertainty about its validity and its relation to the zero virtual work principle.
  • Some participants recommend alternative texts, such as Landau & Lifshitz and Sommerfeld, while others express dissatisfaction with their pedagogical approaches.
  • Discussions about the relevance of elliptic functions in solutions to equations of motion highlight differing opinions on the necessity of such advanced topics for understanding classical mechanics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally do not reach a consensus on the appropriateness of Goldstein for undergraduates. While some advocate for its use, others believe it may be too advanced and that alternative texts could provide a better educational experience.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in Goldstein's treatment of certain topics, such as non-holonomic constraints and the clarity of its early chapters. There is also mention of varying pedagogical effectiveness among different texts.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for undergraduate students considering their resources for studying classical mechanics, as well as educators evaluating the suitability of different texts for their courses.

  • #31
gmax137 said:
Hmm I would have to find my transcript for detail (1978).
...

I have a feeling that your college is one of the elite Little Ivies.
 
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  • #32
andresB said:
...why?
I can think of several reasons. In no particular order:

Do most 17 or 18 year old college freshmen really know they want to study physics or classical literature? How would they know? Why not allow them to try classes in each (and more) and let them decide later what they want to study in depth?

Must a physics graduate think and talk only about physics? Wouldn't it be nice to know at least something about subjects beyond your major?

Is the purpose of the college/university training or education? The liberal arts approach is trying to teach the students how to think critically, how to write clearly, how to study, how to learn. With that, you can spend the rest of your life studying and learning whatever you choose. The variety of subject matter helps because the study habits are different: for physics you must do problem sets, for math you must do proofs. What would a history or literature "problem set" look like?

I went on to graduate school in engineering. Quite a different experience, much more emphasis on gaining specialized knowledge (almost approaching training). Much more pointed at future employment.
 
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  • #33
robphy said:
I have a feeling that your college is one of the elite Little Ivies.
I wonder how many Ephs have found their way to physicsforums?
 
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  • #34
dextercioby said:
For the second, do you know a better treatment than the one by V.S. Vladimirov?
I like

Michael Renardy Robert C. Rogers: An Introduction to
Partial Differential Equations

L. Evans: Partial Differential Equations

Michael Taylor: PDE

M. Shubin: Lectures in PDE (in Russian, perhaps there exists in English)

O. Oleinik: Lectures in PDE (in Russian, perhaps there exists in English)
 
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