Reconciliation of Maxwell's Equations with Relativity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the reconciliation of Maxwell's equations with the principles of relativity, particularly in the context of how electromagnetic fields behave as an observer approaches relativistic speeds. Participants explore the implications of frequency changes in light, the relationship between electric and magnetic fields, and the effects of time dilation and length contraction.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a scenario involving a fast-moving car and questions how the observed increase in light frequency aligns with the expected changes in electric and magnetic fields according to Maxwell's equations.
  • Another participant challenges the expectation that an increase in the rate of change of the magnetic field contradicts the observation of time dilation, suggesting that the relativistic Doppler effect consists of two components: an increase in frequency due to the source approaching and a decrease due to time dilation.
  • A further contribution emphasizes that both electric and magnetic fields should be treated as components of a tensor, which transforms under Lorentz transformations, rather than as scalar quantities.
  • One participant expresses confusion about the implications of increasing frequency on the rates of change of electric and magnetic fields, questioning whether the effects of space contraction might cancel those of time dilation.
  • Another participant attempts to clarify the transformation of electromagnetic waves under Lorentz boosts, providing mathematical expressions for the wave vector and its transformation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of frequency changes and the behavior of electric and magnetic fields under relativistic conditions. There is no consensus on how these effects reconcile with Maxwell's equations and relativity, indicating ongoing debate and exploration of the topic.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific equations from Maxwell's theory and discuss the implications of relativistic effects on electromagnetic waves, but there are unresolved mathematical steps and assumptions regarding the transformations involved.

Usaf Moji
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Let's say you're in a very fast car that can accelerate from zero to, eventually, 0.7c. I understand that as the car moves faster and faster, the driver will observe the light that hits him in the face to be of higher and higher frequency. This seems consistent with things becoming narrower in the direction of travel. But it seems inconsistent with things appearing to happen more slowly in time.
According to Maxwell, the rate of change of the E field with respect to space must be equal and opposite to the rate of change of the B field with respect to time. So, the driver sees light of higher frequency as he goes faster, and thus greater rate of change of E with respect to space; therefore, I would expect him to also see a greater rate of change of B with respect to time.

But if B is changing faster with respect to time, doesn't this contradict the idea that the observer sees things around him happening slower in time?

What am I missing here?
 
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So, the driver sees light of higher frequency as he goes faster, and thus greater rate of change of E with respect to space; therefore, I would expect him to also see a greater rate of change of B with respect to time.
Your expectation is unfounded. The equation of a plane EM wave traveling in the z direction can be written

[tex]E_x = E_{0x}cos( \omega t + kz)[/tex] for the electric part

[tex]B_y = B_{0y}cos( \omega t + kz)[/tex] for the magnetic part.

If you receive at a boosted source, the frequency changes for both identically.
 
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Usaf Moji said:
But if B is changing faster with respect to time, doesn't this contradict the idea that the observer sees things around him happening slower in time?

What am I missing here?
Not sure why you're picking on B. The same considerations would apply to E and it didn't seem to bother you that the rate of change of that field appeared faster.

In any case, the relativistic Doppler effect has two elements: the standard increase in frequency due to the frequency source approaching the observer (as in sound) and a decrease in frequency due to time dilation. The first effect is always greater than the second, at least for the longitudinal Doppler effect. See: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/relativ/reldop2.html#c1"

[Mentz114 beat me to it! :wink:]
 
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Ok, but what I meant was, that for a Maxwell EM wave, the following conditions are true:
[tex]\frac{\partial{E}}{\partial{z}}[/tex] = - [tex]\frac{\partial{B}}{\partial{t}}[/tex]

and

[tex]\frac{\partial{B}}{\partial{z}}[/tex] = - [tex]\epsilon_{o}\mu_{o}\frac{\partial{E}}{\partial{t}}[/tex]

where z is the spatial direction of propagation, and t is time.

So, my point was, where the frequency of light increases, the rate of change of both the E and B fields with respect to space should increase, as expected.

But the (magnitude of the) rate of change of both the E and B fields with respect to time should also increase to satisfy Maxwell - but if this happens, things would seem to be happening faster in time (time contraction) rather than time dilation.

So does this mean that the effects of space contraction would cancel the effects of time dilation - i.e. that if left to relativity alone, without resort to doppler, the wavelength of the light wouldn't seem to change at all? Ugg, so confused!
 
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Usaf,

I can't understand your problem, sorry.

I think if this equation is boosted ( actually the source and/or receiver is boosted ) in the z direction)

[tex]E_x = E_{0x}cos( \omega t + kz)[/tex]

it will go to

[tex]E_x = E_{0x}cos( \gamma \omega t + \gamma kz)[/tex]

so the velocity

[tex]\frac{\omega}{k} \rightarrow \frac{\gamma \omega}{\gamma k}[/tex]

remains constant ( k has dimension reciprocal length ).

This doesn't look right, maybe an expert can help.

M
 
You are treating [tex]E[/tex] and [tex]B[/tex] as scalar quantities. Perhaps you should treat them as components of a tensor, keeping in mind that they themselves transform into each other under Lorentz transformations.
 
My post above is naive.

To boost a light source we have to write the plane wave as a wave vector and apply a Lorentz boost. I did the calculation, and then found it is nicely laid out here -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_vector

The wave vector for a light plane wave moving in the x-direction is ( all vectors transposed to save space)

[tex]\left( \frac{\omega}{c}, k_x, 0, 0 \right)[/tex]

Boosted in the x direction this gives -

[tex]\left( \gamma \left( \frac{\omega}{c}-\beta k_x\right), \gamma\left( k_x-\beta\frac{\omega}{c}\right), 0, 0 \right)[/tex]

and if we let

[tex]\frac{\omega'}{c} \equiv \gamma \left( \frac{\omega}{c}-\beta k_x\right)[/tex]

then with [tex]c=\frac{\omega}{k}[/tex]

[tex]\omega' = \gamma\left(\omega - v_xk\right) = \omega\gamma\left( 1 - \beta)[/tex]

as expected.
 
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