- #36
Monique
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Why not? You are judged for your academic contributions, not whether you go to church every week.Icebreaker said:
Can a Former Felon Succeed as an Engineer?
- Thread starter JimmI_Hendrix
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In summary, the ex-felon with an engineering degree is in high demand due to the need for more diversity in the work force. Getting good grades and not being racist should help overcome any barriers to getting a job.
- #37
Icebreaker
What about the age difference question?
- #38
Evo
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The answer is that once you become 18, you can be arrested as an adult for raping a child (your girlfriend), it doesn't matter if she consents. I know, it's nuts, but that's the law in the US.Icebreaker said:
- #39
Artermis
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JimmI, your story was very touching. I would agree with you that you ARE at a disadvantage, whoever tells you that you aren't is wrong, simply because that society is really that unkind, unforgiving and irrational.
However, if you keep a positive attitude and refuse to take no for an answer (as, undoubtedly, many potential employers will simply see your criminal record and throw you out the door with their finger over the silent alarm button), I am sure that you will go very far given from what I can tell from your posts.
However, if you keep a positive attitude and refuse to take no for an answer (as, undoubtedly, many potential employers will simply see your criminal record and throw you out the door with their finger over the silent alarm button), I am sure that you will go very far given from what I can tell from your posts.
- #40
ktpr2
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Let it be known that if I were a manager I would hire Jimi, for what it's worth. And so would many who posted on this thread. So that's something.
- #41
JimmI_Hendrix
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Icebreaker said:
I don't know the answer to that question.But with my background i would probably be able to reach some borderline kids and help them stay on the right track.
Nathan Mcall wrote a book that has been an inspiration to me "Makes Me Wana Holler". It's a biography about his life. He also went to prison for robbery, changed his life around, and ended up writing for the New York Times!
- #42
so-crates
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Evo said:
In most states I believe there needs to be more than a 2-year age difference. What bugs me is how can you tell if the girl is under 18. If you are 20 and a 16-year old girl lies and says she's 18, you can be convicted of statutory rape. A similar circumstance happened to Michael Vick's brother, Marcus Vick - though he only was convicted of distributing alcohol to minors (a misdemeanor). I don't know the full circumstances of the case but when you have an age difference like that I think there needs to be some common sense. Our society still hangs on to the fantasy that older teenage girls are totally innocent and that if they engage in intercourse it must be because of a predatory male.
Jimm1_Hendrix: What type of engineering degree do you have? I believe a felony conviction would pretty much bar you from getting anything with a U.S. DoD contractor due to security clearance issues, which in my area (D.C. suburbs) is like 80% of the technical jobs. I have a degree in CS(4 years since my bachelors :-( ) and have had a lot of difficulty finding opportunities despite having internship experience in college, so I would imagine its going to be a tough fight. Your GPA is pretty good but there are a lot of people sporting 3.5's. I just went on an interview Friday and my competition was two fresh grads, I know that I definitely have to be a disadvantage because of how far removed from my bachelor's without any direct work experience.
- #43
JimmI_Hendrix
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I'm working on a mechanical engineering degree so-crates.
- #44
so-crates
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My suggestion would probably then be to not only work really hard in your classes, etc. but also to try to find an interesting project to work on. You will probably have to demonstate not only that your aren't the same person that wen't to jail, but that you are also a cut above the rest in terms of motivation, work ethic, and creativity.
- #45
mathwonk
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mr hendrix, i recommend telling the truth on your applications, even if it turns off some employers. otherwise you would always be wondering when they are going to find out and fire you. if you are up front then you know when you do get a job there is nothing to fear.
i recall a girl who was admitted to harvard who had committed murder as a minor, but the case was supposedly sealed, so she did not mention it on her application. then she was outed and there was a big problem, maybe she was kicked out. you do not want that after you have put in your time and effort doing a good job, and the longer you would go without getting caught, the worse it would become to lose all you had worked for.
hang in there.
i recall a girl who was admitted to harvard who had committed murder as a minor, but the case was supposedly sealed, so she did not mention it on her application. then she was outed and there was a big problem, maybe she was kicked out. you do not want that after you have put in your time and effort doing a good job, and the longer you would go without getting caught, the worse it would become to lose all you had worked for.
hang in there.
- #46
JimmI_Hendrix
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That's how I'm going to go about it,i'm going to tell the whole truth from the very beginning. Some one is going to hire me and get a great engineer! If for no other reason a company would wan't me around because i'd be loyal to them. When i get my opportunity I'm going to take full advantage of it.
I have another question for the community. I am a very muscular guy. I weigh between 235-240. I have big arms and chest from years of lifting weights in prison. I find that some people are easily intimidated by my size even though I'm only 5'9''. I don't look like the "typical engineer". Do you think that my size will effect my employment opportunites in a negative way?
I have another question for the community. I am a very muscular guy. I weigh between 235-240. I have big arms and chest from years of lifting weights in prison. I find that some people are easily intimidated by my size even though I'm only 5'9''. I don't look like the "typical engineer". Do you think that my size will effect my employment opportunites in a negative way?
- #47
Dracovich
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Interesting question Jimmi, although you're certainly bigger then me, I'm kinda athletic and I've noticed some weird looks from showing up to school with black eyes and various injuries from training 
Could imagine it being a problem if i were to get into an non-liberal office enviroment. Although it's years away still.
Could imagine it being a problem if i were to get into an non-liberal office enviroment. Although it's years away still.- #48
Norman
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Hey Jimmi,JimmI_Hendrix said:
I don't know if your size will be an issue if you present a professional appearance. I think professionalism and honesty will be your greatest weapons in finding employment. On another level, have you considered going on to grad school? I have heard in engineering that in the real world (that is not university), graduate degrees in engineering can actually make it difficult to get jobs without real world experience, but maybe you could get a Ph.D. and become a professor? Or teach somewhere? Anyways, just some ideas. Stay positive and work hard. I think you are at a disadvantage compared to the squeaky clean white kids, but you also have the maturity and life experiences that some employers are looking for. In the end I am positive things will work out for you.
Good luck and god speed.
Norm
- #49
mathwonk
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Thats not a problem, and unless you keep lifting, it will gradually diminish from years of just lifting a pencil and sitting at at desk.
In fact you may find you need to be mindful of staying in shape, if you get a desk job.
In fact you may find you need to be mindful of staying in shape, if you get a desk job.
- #50
mathwonk
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Jimmi,
you know I've been thinking... there is a potential issue with intimidation, but it is not exactly the same as size.
men in some situations, presumably including prison, may learn to behave in a threatening manner, to protect themselves. I know I had to when I worked in the meat market. If I didn't, some of those guys would have "eaten my lunch" every day.
But any kind of threatening body language or speech, is out of bounds in an office setting. We have to learn even to take some verbal abuse, without ever threatening physical retaliation, as we might in an all male, physical work setting.
It can be very frustrating to be read out by some twit, or seriously mistreated, and never respond by losing our temper. But even shouting in an office environment can be cause for dismissal, regardless of who is right.
Presumably you are already getting some practice at this in grad school, but if this rings a bell, you might want some professional advice and coaching, better than just our opinions here.
It can be done. You just say goodbye to those old attitudes of survival forever, and use exercise, and maybe meditation or worship if that's your thing, to blow off steam.
Ultimately, the fact is the "way of yielding" is more powerful, as both Jesus and Jigoro Kano [founder of modern judo] knew, but it takes persistence.
You are a new man now, in every way, and probably you have already dealt with this. Putting people at ease is all about smiling and remaining calm, and respecting their words, their feelings, and their space. There are many large but gentle people out there.
Best wishes.
you know I've been thinking... there is a potential issue with intimidation, but it is not exactly the same as size.
men in some situations, presumably including prison, may learn to behave in a threatening manner, to protect themselves. I know I had to when I worked in the meat market. If I didn't, some of those guys would have "eaten my lunch" every day.
But any kind of threatening body language or speech, is out of bounds in an office setting. We have to learn even to take some verbal abuse, without ever threatening physical retaliation, as we might in an all male, physical work setting.
It can be very frustrating to be read out by some twit, or seriously mistreated, and never respond by losing our temper. But even shouting in an office environment can be cause for dismissal, regardless of who is right.
Presumably you are already getting some practice at this in grad school, but if this rings a bell, you might want some professional advice and coaching, better than just our opinions here.
It can be done. You just say goodbye to those old attitudes of survival forever, and use exercise, and maybe meditation or worship if that's your thing, to blow off steam.
Ultimately, the fact is the "way of yielding" is more powerful, as both Jesus and Jigoro Kano [founder of modern judo] knew, but it takes persistence.
You are a new man now, in every way, and probably you have already dealt with this. Putting people at ease is all about smiling and remaining calm, and respecting their words, their feelings, and their space. There are many large but gentle people out there.
Best wishes.
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- #51
JimmI_Hendrix
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I really appreciate all the thoughtful responses to this thread. Two years ago I had never seen what the internet was or had even heard of a message board. The change my life has taken amazes me all the time! Two years ago I had to take public showers and use public toilets, and even on the days that my family visited me i'd have to strip totally naked in front of an officer before i was allowed into the visiting park to see my family.I know that might be offensive to some people but that's just how life in prison is.But now, life has taken new meaning! I can go to Starbucks and order a vinte white chocolate mocha (extra hot!). I can watch the science channel all day.I can sit under the pecan trees in my yard and read computer gaming world (while drooling about the next Unreal Tournament game).
I can I can I can...
I can I can I can...
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- #52
bfd
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JimmI_Hendrix said:
God bless you and I wish you good luck in your future endeavors. Follow your talent and I guarnetee the rest will fall into place.
- #53
omagdon7
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To whoever said what happens if you turn 18 and your girlfriend is 1 year younger. In Florida it is legal for anyone under the age of 24 to have relations with anyone 16 or older. So actually nothing would happen.
- #54
An Average Joe
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First, the laws are attitudes of prosecutors are shifting back and forth so frequently that it is impossible to know what is legal or not in many cases.
If you are in Florida, or anywhere else for that matter, and your girlfriend is under 18, the wisest thing that you can do is to understand that even if she is begging you for sex you are better off abstaining because society will quite literally hang you for it. Imagine your face. Now imagine your face on a sexoffender website. Imagine your face on posters, flyers and billboards all over your neighborhood. Now imagine your funeral. It happens.
All of this is really quite disturbing, considering the fact that we had a US President who was married to a 17 year old, and the most famous female country artist in the US ever was married and pregnant at 12 - and nobody seemed to notice at the time.
Today, there is a very active campaign in government and elsewhere to encourage violence against sex offenders, and the definition of sexoffender seems to be broadening.
It is also useful to note that some cultures are even more sexually repressed than we are, and their governments have issued official edicts calling for the deaths of people such as Madonna and others. Yet most people in our culture are not offended by Madonna.
Regarding your employment prospects, if you are African American it may be easier for you to find employment than a white candidate who also has a criminal record. The EEOC has issued statements which imply that you have some inherent, limited protections.
These protections would not apply to whites. It has something to do with the weird logic of EEOC policies. I would check it out and exploit it if I were you. Your ethnicity may actually be an advantage.
Also note that there has been a very large program to keep felons unemployed for the past 50 years or more. The ability of employers to discriminate has grown in direct proportion to their ability to acces information such as criminal records, etc. Today, the computer makes it possible for every employer to dig up as much dirt as they like in seconds.
In my opinion, these practices are primary sources of chaos in society.
I would recommend that you always answer truthfully on a job app. And do not lose hope. Many will say no, others may become violent. But eventually you will find someone who says yes. And if you don't find that job, then you MUST start your own business and fight for legislation which will offset the intense discrimination.
If you are in Florida, or anywhere else for that matter, and your girlfriend is under 18, the wisest thing that you can do is to understand that even if she is begging you for sex you are better off abstaining because society will quite literally hang you for it. Imagine your face. Now imagine your face on a sexoffender website. Imagine your face on posters, flyers and billboards all over your neighborhood. Now imagine your funeral. It happens.
All of this is really quite disturbing, considering the fact that we had a US President who was married to a 17 year old, and the most famous female country artist in the US ever was married and pregnant at 12 - and nobody seemed to notice at the time.
Today, there is a very active campaign in government and elsewhere to encourage violence against sex offenders, and the definition of sexoffender seems to be broadening.
It is also useful to note that some cultures are even more sexually repressed than we are, and their governments have issued official edicts calling for the deaths of people such as Madonna and others. Yet most people in our culture are not offended by Madonna.
Regarding your employment prospects, if you are African American it may be easier for you to find employment than a white candidate who also has a criminal record. The EEOC has issued statements which imply that you have some inherent, limited protections.
These protections would not apply to whites. It has something to do with the weird logic of EEOC policies. I would check it out and exploit it if I were you. Your ethnicity may actually be an advantage.
Also note that there has been a very large program to keep felons unemployed for the past 50 years or more. The ability of employers to discriminate has grown in direct proportion to their ability to acces information such as criminal records, etc. Today, the computer makes it possible for every employer to dig up as much dirt as they like in seconds.
In my opinion, these practices are primary sources of chaos in society.
I would recommend that you always answer truthfully on a job app. And do not lose hope. Many will say no, others may become violent. But eventually you will find someone who says yes. And if you don't find that job, then you MUST start your own business and fight for legislation which will offset the intense discrimination.
- #55
moose
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I've always thought that there was that two year law, where if there was a two year difference or less than it is lawful. For example, a 19 year old with 17, or 18 year old with 16...I should look it up.Evo said:
- #56
An Average Joe
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That would be a very dangerous assumption. Prosecutors have a great deal of flexibility to interpret the law in this area. I would say that it is very much like going before Pontius Pilate. You will either go absolutely free like Barabbas, or you will be crucufied.
I'm not a sex offender, but I think that the punishment schedule for sex crimes is completely out of whack because no politician wants to be an Alfred Kinsey. They lack the courage.
The result is cases such as one recent situation where a little boy and girl were playing doctor or some damn thing and the DA charged them both as sex criminals!
------- returning to topic --->>>
Opportunities for engineers are ambiguous. There are prohibitions barring felons being employed as professional engineers, but some people interpret certain applications of these prohibitions as unethically extreme.
Take a look at this case study
http://www.niee.org/cases/78-88/case78-2.htm
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Code of Ethics Section 13 "The Engineer will not associate with, or allow the use of his name by an enterprise of questionable character, nor will he become professionally associated with engineers who do not conform to ethical practices, or with persons not legally qualified to render the professional services for which the association is intended."
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So, if they wanted to, they could tell you to go to hell. But if they felt sorry for you, or if you were related to Senator such-n-such, the rules could be bent to allow you to work. In most cases they will tell you to get lost, regardless of your qualifications. Reality.
Also, keep in mind that the "former engineer" in this case study was being considered for employment as a "technician". So, the implication is that you cannot possibly be a member in good standing of the NSPE if you are a felon.
Regarding opportunities in higer education, this is 2005. Not 1978. The attitude has completely changed, and Boards of Regents are firing professors with felony convictions faster than you can say "post hoc ergo procter hoc".
There are numerous cases where Universities have caved to public pressure and fired an otherwise good professor. Meanwhile, anyone with a criminal record in another country who comes here to teach or work will go right under the radar.
In fact, even if the police are aware that said immigrant has a criminal history in another country, they cannot be denied the right to posses firearms, because they did not break the law on US soil ! Still, American sex-tourists who visit prostitutes in other countries are being tried when they come back to the US ! And I should probably add that the sex-tourist prosecutions are typically not applied to US servicemen, who are the primary consumers of prostitutes abroad.
One last thing, the NSPE only deals with professional engineers. It is still quite possible to be hired by a company as an engineer - regardless of the NSPE's attempt to enforce extrajudicial punishments in the workplace.
And if you committed a felony outside the US and immigrated to the US, chances are very good that the NSPE will never catch on.
I'm not a sex offender, but I think that the punishment schedule for sex crimes is completely out of whack because no politician wants to be an Alfred Kinsey. They lack the courage.
The result is cases such as one recent situation where a little boy and girl were playing doctor or some damn thing and the DA charged them both as sex criminals!
------- returning to topic --->>>
Opportunities for engineers are ambiguous. There are prohibitions barring felons being employed as professional engineers, but some people interpret certain applications of these prohibitions as unethically extreme.
Take a look at this case study
http://www.niee.org/cases/78-88/case78-2.htm
-----------------------
Code of Ethics Section 13 "The Engineer will not associate with, or allow the use of his name by an enterprise of questionable character, nor will he become professionally associated with engineers who do not conform to ethical practices, or with persons not legally qualified to render the professional services for which the association is intended."
-----------------------
So, if they wanted to, they could tell you to go to hell. But if they felt sorry for you, or if you were related to Senator such-n-such, the rules could be bent to allow you to work. In most cases they will tell you to get lost, regardless of your qualifications. Reality.
Also, keep in mind that the "former engineer" in this case study was being considered for employment as a "technician". So, the implication is that you cannot possibly be a member in good standing of the NSPE if you are a felon.
Regarding opportunities in higer education, this is 2005. Not 1978. The attitude has completely changed, and Boards of Regents are firing professors with felony convictions faster than you can say "post hoc ergo procter hoc".
There are numerous cases where Universities have caved to public pressure and fired an otherwise good professor. Meanwhile, anyone with a criminal record in another country who comes here to teach or work will go right under the radar.
In fact, even if the police are aware that said immigrant has a criminal history in another country, they cannot be denied the right to posses firearms, because they did not break the law on US soil ! Still, American sex-tourists who visit prostitutes in other countries are being tried when they come back to the US ! And I should probably add that the sex-tourist prosecutions are typically not applied to US servicemen, who are the primary consumers of prostitutes abroad.
One last thing, the NSPE only deals with professional engineers. It is still quite possible to be hired by a company as an engineer - regardless of the NSPE's attempt to enforce extrajudicial punishments in the workplace.
And if you committed a felony outside the US and immigrated to the US, chances are very good that the NSPE will never catch on.
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- #57
An Average Joe
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One more note on this, if you read carefully :
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Code of Ethics Section 13 "The Engineer will not associate with, or allow the use of his name by an enterprise of questionable character, nor will he become professionally associated with engineers who do not conform to ethical practices, or with persons not legally qualified to render the professional services for which the association is intended."
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You can see that the intended wording can also imply that engineering firms do not do any business with companies which might be owned by felons. Many businesses "are" conducting background checks on their suppliers, customers, and others.
So, even if you were able to start your own business, anticompetitive policies which are specifically designed to shut you out of the economy will eventually drive you out of the marketplace. It is policy to not hire you. It is also policy not to patronize your business.
The only thing which is unclear about such policies is whether the intention is to drive you out of the country, or to drive you out of existence. Whatever the case, I think that you'll be treated much better in another country.
-----------------------
Code of Ethics Section 13 "The Engineer will not associate with, or allow the use of his name by an enterprise of questionable character, nor will he become professionally associated with engineers who do not conform to ethical practices, or with persons not legally qualified to render the professional services for which the association is intended."
-----------------------
You can see that the intended wording can also imply that engineering firms do not do any business with companies which might be owned by felons. Many businesses "are" conducting background checks on their suppliers, customers, and others.
So, even if you were able to start your own business, anticompetitive policies which are specifically designed to shut you out of the economy will eventually drive you out of the marketplace. It is policy to not hire you. It is also policy not to patronize your business.
The only thing which is unclear about such policies is whether the intention is to drive you out of the country, or to drive you out of existence. Whatever the case, I think that you'll be treated much better in another country.
- #58
Evo
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It varies by state, and it varies by classification, for example if the older person is in a position of trust (teacher) for example, there may be no age limitation. I was thinking specifically of a recent case here where an 18 year old was convicted of statutory rape of his 17 year old girlfriend (she got pregnant). Even though she initially said she consented, she changed her story (it seems like she got angry at her boyfriend and decided to get revenge, from what I read), they prosecuted him. She's a minor, he's an adult.moose said:
- #59
An Average Joe
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There is a great deal of confusion regarding what is legal and what is not. Every state has it's own idiosyncratic laws and local culture.
There is, however, quite a bit of agreement regarding punishments. There is a voice which is getting louder which calls for the death of any sex offender. Many people are very enthusiatic in their impunity, so much so that Americans may risk extinction out of fear to procreate.
There has always been a tradition of hazing sex offenders in prison, many have been killed by other inmates. The history of this is very brutal, no different than most 3rd world countries.
The irrationality of all of this is self evident. But if you are an 18 year old male with a 17 year old girlfriend, keep in mind that having sex can make you an enemy of the state. And if you go to prison for it you might not come back. I'm NOT making this up. I have seen inmates who were so doped up on psychotropics that their extremeties swell up, they turn into goons. Prison is full of them. It is a chemical lobotomy, and the effects are very similar to the surgical variety. That a simple, natural act of love could lead to a punishment such as this -
At one time, prison populations were small. If you manufactured a monster here or there it did not affect the whole country. Today, the mechanics of incarcerating have not changed much, but we have over 2 million people currently behind bars. Statistically, we have raised the probability of disasterous consequences, we see the evidence every night on the news. And leadership to develop real solutions is weak, or nonexistent.
It is my sincere hope that Hendrix will find a good job, but in all honesty, I am cautiously optimistic.
There is, however, quite a bit of agreement regarding punishments. There is a voice which is getting louder which calls for the death of any sex offender. Many people are very enthusiatic in their impunity, so much so that Americans may risk extinction out of fear to procreate.
There has always been a tradition of hazing sex offenders in prison, many have been killed by other inmates. The history of this is very brutal, no different than most 3rd world countries.
The irrationality of all of this is self evident. But if you are an 18 year old male with a 17 year old girlfriend, keep in mind that having sex can make you an enemy of the state. And if you go to prison for it you might not come back. I'm NOT making this up. I have seen inmates who were so doped up on psychotropics that their extremeties swell up, they turn into goons. Prison is full of them. It is a chemical lobotomy, and the effects are very similar to the surgical variety. That a simple, natural act of love could lead to a punishment such as this -
At one time, prison populations were small. If you manufactured a monster here or there it did not affect the whole country. Today, the mechanics of incarcerating have not changed much, but we have over 2 million people currently behind bars. Statistically, we have raised the probability of disasterous consequences, we see the evidence every night on the news. And leadership to develop real solutions is weak, or nonexistent.
It is my sincere hope that Hendrix will find a good job, but in all honesty, I am cautiously optimistic.
- #60
GCT
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by the way what is the age limit for the female when it comes to marrying or sleeping wit h them?
- #61
An Average Joe
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A good place to start is
http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm
But the information at that site is really only a guide. It seems that laws are rarely applied uniformly, and so there is a lot of confusion.
Laws which are intended to protect society from genuine predators are also being applied in cases which are relatively innocent by comparison. Justice is really stumbling in this area and needs serious reform.
From the above website, there are still laws on the books in the US in various states which criminalize homosexuality, despite the fact that other states are at this very moment moving to allow gay marriage. Certainly, nobody in the US would go to jail today for being gay - as long as the age restriction is not violated. In the past, however, (only 40 years ago) being homosexual would land you in an insane asylum where you would probably receive extensive electroshock or lobotomy.
More recently, popular sentiments in the US were always very brutal toward gays. But this seems to have changed completely over the past 20 years. And this change has been very pronounced, and remarkable.
I don't think that reformed convicts will ever enjoy the level of acceptance that gays have achieved, but it is certainly possible that employers could expand opportunities to qualified individuals. Currently, most employers will not even consider a felon, but this could change.
http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm
But the information at that site is really only a guide. It seems that laws are rarely applied uniformly, and so there is a lot of confusion.
Laws which are intended to protect society from genuine predators are also being applied in cases which are relatively innocent by comparison. Justice is really stumbling in this area and needs serious reform.
From the above website, there are still laws on the books in the US in various states which criminalize homosexuality, despite the fact that other states are at this very moment moving to allow gay marriage. Certainly, nobody in the US would go to jail today for being gay - as long as the age restriction is not violated. In the past, however, (only 40 years ago) being homosexual would land you in an insane asylum where you would probably receive extensive electroshock or lobotomy.
More recently, popular sentiments in the US were always very brutal toward gays. But this seems to have changed completely over the past 20 years. And this change has been very pronounced, and remarkable.
I don't think that reformed convicts will ever enjoy the level of acceptance that gays have achieved, but it is certainly possible that employers could expand opportunities to qualified individuals. Currently, most employers will not even consider a felon, but this could change.
- #62
Balthorn
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>>What if you had a long-time girlfriend who is 1 year younger than you? When you reach 18, what happens?
Well, speaking as felon and a registered sex offender.. i was conviced as a sex offender in PA because a single picture of a child was found on my computer.. how it got there didn't matter.. the fact is it was there.. anyhow.. to answer your question...
In PA all sex offenders are required to undergo group therapy while incarcerated, on Parole or on probation.. I was in group therapy for 3 years, on a weekly basis.. through that time.. people came and went.. I can tell you that during that time there were at least 4 guys.. all under the age of 21 who came into therapy as registered sex offenders (and will be that way for the rest of their lives) because they had had sex with or solicited a female under the age of 18. In 2 of the cases, these were guys who had had long term (over 2 years) relationships with the girls before they turned 18. In one case, the guy was 17 and she was 15. They were sexually active and the parents did nothing. He turned 18 while she was still 15. When the couple broke up, because he would not let it go, her parents filed charges for statutory rape. Because he had turned 18 and continued their sexual relationship he was convicted. This man is now 20 yrs. old and will spend the rest of his life as a sex offender with all the stigma that comes with it. Even in group therapy he had to discuss when and why he began having "deviant" thoughts, ect.
In another case, the guy was 19, working as a DJ in an all age club. He met 2 girls who lied about their ages.. and subsequently made arrangements via email to meet the two of the at a motel. One of the girls fathers found the emails.. and when the guy arrived at the motel he was arrested, and later convicted... for arranging to have sex with minors. He got 5 years probation and he too will spend the rest of his life as a sex offender.
So I hope this answers your question.
Well, speaking as felon and a registered sex offender.. i was conviced as a sex offender in PA because a single picture of a child was found on my computer.. how it got there didn't matter.. the fact is it was there.. anyhow.. to answer your question...
In PA all sex offenders are required to undergo group therapy while incarcerated, on Parole or on probation.. I was in group therapy for 3 years, on a weekly basis.. through that time.. people came and went.. I can tell you that during that time there were at least 4 guys.. all under the age of 21 who came into therapy as registered sex offenders (and will be that way for the rest of their lives) because they had had sex with or solicited a female under the age of 18. In 2 of the cases, these were guys who had had long term (over 2 years) relationships with the girls before they turned 18. In one case, the guy was 17 and she was 15. They were sexually active and the parents did nothing. He turned 18 while she was still 15. When the couple broke up, because he would not let it go, her parents filed charges for statutory rape. Because he had turned 18 and continued their sexual relationship he was convicted. This man is now 20 yrs. old and will spend the rest of his life as a sex offender with all the stigma that comes with it. Even in group therapy he had to discuss when and why he began having "deviant" thoughts, ect.
In another case, the guy was 19, working as a DJ in an all age club. He met 2 girls who lied about their ages.. and subsequently made arrangements via email to meet the two of the at a motel. One of the girls fathers found the emails.. and when the guy arrived at the motel he was arrested, and later convicted... for arranging to have sex with minors. He got 5 years probation and he too will spend the rest of his life as a sex offender.
So I hope this answers your question.
- #63
Specimanic!
- 1
- 0
Hi Jimmi,
First off, thank you so much for posting. Have you yet felt alone in your strife? Well, no longer. Our stories are strikingly similar...
So, here's mine:
At the age of 19, I was facing 25 to Life for kidnapping. I ended up (thank God!) only serving 2.5 years, since my role in the crime was minimal. I took the time to really think about my life, to think about what I want out of it. I realized that Math and Physics was my love in life and that I wanted to be an electrical engineer. I was finally mature enough to appreciate the simple beauty and captivating elegance of math and science. With this new enlightenment, I did everything I could to immerse myself in the subjects. I tutored the other felons in mathematics, completed a vocational electronics course in 1/2 the usual time, and feverishly studied textbooks with the help of my family. When I could, I read famous philosophers just as you did (Nietzche, etc.) and wrote about their ideas as well as my own in a independent DIY prison magazine. I took distance learning courses through a charitable christian college and as soon as I was released, I was in a real brick-and-mortar college the first chance I got. I was so excited to finally know what I want to do with my life...I just couldn't wait to begin!
Unfortunately the reality of being an ex-felon in America quickly became apparent upon my release. At the first place I applied, Rite Aid, the manager actually said that they have a policy of not hiring criminals. I couldn't believe it! I don't know how it is in Florida, but in California, it says right there on the application that the company cannot deny you employment based solely upon a felony conviction. Wish I had gotten that on tape! I would have sued them just to make a point. Society treats us awfully. Even though we have "seen the error of our ways" and paid our price, we still are second-class citizens.
So, that was my first inkling that things would be more difficult than I thought.
Then, I applied to work at the college as a sort of teacher aide which they call "Supplemental Instruction"...I wanted to help teach calculus. However, the powers that be informed me that they could not hire me due to my previous conviction. Was it by law or preference, I wonder?
So even though my teachers were asking me to be their supplemental instructor, and even though I wanted to do it SO BADLY and would have been AWESOME at it...I could not. >sigh<
If you thought that was bad, check this one out...
More recently, I applied for transfer to the UC system of colleges here in CA. For my personal statement, I wrote about my prison experience, how I fell in love with math and physics there, and how I worked hard to "hit the ground running" upon release. I was rejected from every University I applied to, even though I have a 3.5+ GPA, was president (treasurer and representative, too) of the extremely active Physics club, had stellar standardized testing scores, and have held the same job since being released (4 years now!). Like you, I also was one of the top students in my class. I was the one who people came to with their questions...not the teacher! Man, those colleges don't know what they missed out on. I am so passionate about this stuff! I LOVE IT!
Anyway, I have been doing everything I can to contrast this unfortunate blemish on my past with positive achievements. Yet, I get the impression that society doesn't give a *poop* about all that. Most seem to believe that "once a felon, always a felon". Either that, or they are afraid of what others will think, afraid that they will get in trouble or be sued or something...assumption of risk and all that...
Yet, there is hope. Yes, it is true that our path is more difficult than those walked by others, but think of how much more you care about your career now. Would you have worked so hard if you weren't a felon? If you hadn't gone to prison, would you have even discovered your love for science and math? You said in one of your posts that prison was one of the best things that ever happened to you. I too see it that way. If it weren't for being arrested, I would have been dead...or even worse, I would have still been alive and doing the same self-destructive things. Yeah, I would have rather been dead. But I'm not! And neither are you! And since we were given a second chance at life, we must live the best life that we can, even if "the man" is holding us down.
We have to use our brains to think creatively about our situation. As engineers, we should know all about how to problem solve! We will figure out how to succeed eventually, in time. But the key is to not get discouraged. If we give up, then ignorance wins, and other people in our situation will have to deal with the same bull*poop*. In a sense, we are pioneers of this new and vicious landscape. We must keep sight of what we are working for, and believe in ourselves when it seems that few others do.
Of all the ways to counteract this ugly scar on my past, the one that has worked the best thusfar is the utilization of a personal network. The word "networking" is thrown around like a meaningless buzzword all too often, demeaning its importance to one's career. In this case though, it can be your messiah. Having the support of real-live people who have given you a chance despite your past really says a lot about you and your abilities. Friends and family members are important to your network, but their opinions of you are usually considered to be biased. They want to see you succeed for personal reasons. Professionals, however, have a reputation to uphold. If they say you are good, they mean it! So, get to know your professors and let them get to know you. This is good to do in community college, as it will offer you opportunities such as small jobs at the college, or the benefit of the doubt on a borderline grade. When you get into the junior and senior level classes, though, networking with your professors should be your #2 priority, second only to your schoolwork, of course. When internship positions need to be filled, employers turn to local colleges. They will usually present the opportunity to the Dean of the department (the dean of engineering in your case), who will then ask his underlings (your professors) for candidates. If they see you as their top student, of course they will recommend you! This happens all the time at Universities, and can be the ultimate salvation to people like us! This is your foot in the door to a company. Then, if you work your best, the company will more than likely hire you on as a permanent employee. Now you have the support and recommendation of a company, a professor, and a dean, at very least. Eventually, (or so I've been told) your credibility will overshadow your felony, and you will be worth more to a company than the risk that they take in hiring you.
That last sentence is very important- keep it in mind when you apply for jobs. You must make yourself worth more to them than the risk that you present. Create evidence of this by winning engineering competitions, doing research...showcase your ability!
And remember...we are starting as sub-normal individuals and must work harder than the normal engineering student to achieve the same end.
I would love to hear what other strategies you have found for propelling yourself into normalcy, or of your struggles, your thoughts, etc. You are the first person I have found in 4 years that is dealing with the same problems as I am and it is very comforting to know that I am not alone!
Thank you for existing!
-Specimanic!
First off, thank you so much for posting. Have you yet felt alone in your strife? Well, no longer. Our stories are strikingly similar...
So, here's mine:
At the age of 19, I was facing 25 to Life for kidnapping. I ended up (thank God!) only serving 2.5 years, since my role in the crime was minimal. I took the time to really think about my life, to think about what I want out of it. I realized that Math and Physics was my love in life and that I wanted to be an electrical engineer. I was finally mature enough to appreciate the simple beauty and captivating elegance of math and science. With this new enlightenment, I did everything I could to immerse myself in the subjects. I tutored the other felons in mathematics, completed a vocational electronics course in 1/2 the usual time, and feverishly studied textbooks with the help of my family. When I could, I read famous philosophers just as you did (Nietzche, etc.) and wrote about their ideas as well as my own in a independent DIY prison magazine. I took distance learning courses through a charitable christian college and as soon as I was released, I was in a real brick-and-mortar college the first chance I got. I was so excited to finally know what I want to do with my life...I just couldn't wait to begin!
Unfortunately the reality of being an ex-felon in America quickly became apparent upon my release. At the first place I applied, Rite Aid, the manager actually said that they have a policy of not hiring criminals. I couldn't believe it! I don't know how it is in Florida, but in California, it says right there on the application that the company cannot deny you employment based solely upon a felony conviction. Wish I had gotten that on tape! I would have sued them just to make a point. Society treats us awfully. Even though we have "seen the error of our ways" and paid our price, we still are second-class citizens.
So, that was my first inkling that things would be more difficult than I thought.
Then, I applied to work at the college as a sort of teacher aide which they call "Supplemental Instruction"...I wanted to help teach calculus. However, the powers that be informed me that they could not hire me due to my previous conviction. Was it by law or preference, I wonder?
So even though my teachers were asking me to be their supplemental instructor, and even though I wanted to do it SO BADLY and would have been AWESOME at it...I could not. >sigh<
If you thought that was bad, check this one out...
More recently, I applied for transfer to the UC system of colleges here in CA. For my personal statement, I wrote about my prison experience, how I fell in love with math and physics there, and how I worked hard to "hit the ground running" upon release. I was rejected from every University I applied to, even though I have a 3.5+ GPA, was president (treasurer and representative, too) of the extremely active Physics club, had stellar standardized testing scores, and have held the same job since being released (4 years now!). Like you, I also was one of the top students in my class. I was the one who people came to with their questions...not the teacher! Man, those colleges don't know what they missed out on. I am so passionate about this stuff! I LOVE IT!
Anyway, I have been doing everything I can to contrast this unfortunate blemish on my past with positive achievements. Yet, I get the impression that society doesn't give a *poop* about all that. Most seem to believe that "once a felon, always a felon". Either that, or they are afraid of what others will think, afraid that they will get in trouble or be sued or something...assumption of risk and all that...
Yet, there is hope. Yes, it is true that our path is more difficult than those walked by others, but think of how much more you care about your career now. Would you have worked so hard if you weren't a felon? If you hadn't gone to prison, would you have even discovered your love for science and math? You said in one of your posts that prison was one of the best things that ever happened to you. I too see it that way. If it weren't for being arrested, I would have been dead...or even worse, I would have still been alive and doing the same self-destructive things. Yeah, I would have rather been dead. But I'm not! And neither are you! And since we were given a second chance at life, we must live the best life that we can, even if "the man" is holding us down.
We have to use our brains to think creatively about our situation. As engineers, we should know all about how to problem solve! We will figure out how to succeed eventually, in time. But the key is to not get discouraged. If we give up, then ignorance wins, and other people in our situation will have to deal with the same bull*poop*. In a sense, we are pioneers of this new and vicious landscape. We must keep sight of what we are working for, and believe in ourselves when it seems that few others do.
Of all the ways to counteract this ugly scar on my past, the one that has worked the best thusfar is the utilization of a personal network. The word "networking" is thrown around like a meaningless buzzword all too often, demeaning its importance to one's career. In this case though, it can be your messiah. Having the support of real-live people who have given you a chance despite your past really says a lot about you and your abilities. Friends and family members are important to your network, but their opinions of you are usually considered to be biased. They want to see you succeed for personal reasons. Professionals, however, have a reputation to uphold. If they say you are good, they mean it! So, get to know your professors and let them get to know you. This is good to do in community college, as it will offer you opportunities such as small jobs at the college, or the benefit of the doubt on a borderline grade. When you get into the junior and senior level classes, though, networking with your professors should be your #2 priority, second only to your schoolwork, of course. When internship positions need to be filled, employers turn to local colleges. They will usually present the opportunity to the Dean of the department (the dean of engineering in your case), who will then ask his underlings (your professors) for candidates. If they see you as their top student, of course they will recommend you! This happens all the time at Universities, and can be the ultimate salvation to people like us! This is your foot in the door to a company. Then, if you work your best, the company will more than likely hire you on as a permanent employee. Now you have the support and recommendation of a company, a professor, and a dean, at very least. Eventually, (or so I've been told) your credibility will overshadow your felony, and you will be worth more to a company than the risk that they take in hiring you.
That last sentence is very important- keep it in mind when you apply for jobs. You must make yourself worth more to them than the risk that you present. Create evidence of this by winning engineering competitions, doing research...showcase your ability!
And remember...we are starting as sub-normal individuals and must work harder than the normal engineering student to achieve the same end.
I would love to hear what other strategies you have found for propelling yourself into normalcy, or of your struggles, your thoughts, etc. You are the first person I have found in 4 years that is dealing with the same problems as I am and it is very comforting to know that I am not alone!
Thank you for existing!
-Specimanic!
- #64
proof
- 33
- 0
i wouldn't mind hearing an update from JimmI!
- #65
Jack21222
- 212
- 1
A 5 year old necropost... I wonder where JimmI is these days? Somewhere good, I hope.
- #66
G037H3
- 280
- 2
No comment. <--lol!
- #67
Math Is Hard
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
- 4,652
- 37
Specimanic! said:
I wish you loads and loads of good luck on the UC application!
How did someone as smart as you get mixed up in something as horrible as kidnapping?
- #68
inflector
- 344
- 2
Evo said:
Not really. It depends on the state you are in. The age of consent varies from 16 to 18. More states have an age of consent at 16 than 18. Many have allowances for those who are only two or three years in age difference.
[EDIT] Sheesh, I just realized this was 5 years old.
- #69
Jack21222
- 212
- 1
Math Is Hard said:
This says WAY too much about me and my priorities, but I'm actually more upset about the necropost than the kidnapping.
The internet is serious business.
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