Relation between force couple and Newton's third law

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between force couples and Newton's third law of action-reaction pairs, exploring whether force couples can be considered examples of such pairs. The scope includes conceptual clarification and technical explanation of Newton's laws.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that force couples do not constitute action-reaction pairs due to their nature of acting on a single object.
  • One participant distinguishes between the strong and weak forms of Newton's third law, noting that the strong form requires action-reaction pairs to have the same line of action, while the weak form only requires them to be equal and opposite.
  • Another participant outlines criteria for determining whether two forces are action-reaction pairs, emphasizing that they must act on different objects and be equal in magnitude but opposite in direction.
  • A specific example is provided involving a book on a table, illustrating that while the forces acting on the book are equal and opposite, they do not meet the criteria for action-reaction pairs as they act on the same object.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on whether force couples can be classified as action-reaction pairs, with some asserting they cannot and others providing criteria that support this view.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the nuances in interpreting Newton's third law, particularly the distinction between its strong and weak forms, and the specific conditions under which forces can be considered action-reaction pairs.

swayne221b
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After being through with Newton's 3rd law of action reaction pairs, there arise a doubt regarding the categorization of force couple (related to torque) of being or NOT being an example of action reaction pairs.
 
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Not.
 
Can you briefly explain?
 
Action-reaction pairs have the same line of action.
 
Got it, thanks.
 
Simon Bridge said:
Action-reaction pairs have the same line of action.
That's the strong form of Newton's third law. The weak form does not require that condition. It merely requires that action-reaction pairs be equal but opposite.

However, even in the context of the weak form of Newton's third law, the forces in a couple do NOT constitute an action-reaction pair. There's another very important part of Newton's third law that applies in both the weak and strong forms of the law: The forces in the action-reaction pair operate on two different objects. In the case of the question posed in the opening post, the two forces are acting on but one object, so they are not an action-reaction pair.

Below are some simple tests to determine whether two forces constitute an action-reaction pair:
  1. Are the forces equal in magnitude but opposite in direction?
    If they aren't, the forces are not an action-reaction pair.
  2. Do the forces act on two different objects?
    If both forces act on the same object they are not an action-reaction pair.
  3. Are the two objects responsible for the forces?
    In other words, object A must be responsible the force acting on object B, and object B must be responsible for the force acting on object A. If this is not the case, the forces in question do not constitute an action-reaction pair.
  4. Is it the same force?
    If not, the forces do not constitute an action-reaction pair. For example, the reaction to gravitation is gravitation and the reaction to the Coulomb force is the Coulomb force. The action-reaction pair of forces are caused by a single interaction between pairs of objects.

Consider a book sitting on a table in a vacuum chamber at the South pole. The forces on the book are the downward force of gravitation toward the Earth as a whole and the upward normal force exerted by the table. While these are equal but opposite forces (so they pass test #1), they do not constitute an action-reaction pair. These forces fail tests #2 and #4. Both forces act on the book, and the underlying causes of these forces are very different. The third law counterparts to these two forces are the gravitational force the book exerts on the Earth and the normal force the book exerts on the table.
 
D H, I owe you one. Cleared every minute detail.
 

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