Relationship between molecular momentum and electron orbital behavior

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the potential relationship between molecular momentum and electron orbital behavior, particularly in the context of varying gravitational conditions. Participants question whether changes in heat and pressure due to gravity could influence electron behavior and energy levels, touching on concepts from thermodynamics and quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that lower gravity might lead to lower average energy levels of atomic electrons due to reduced gravitational force affecting pressure.
  • Others argue that gravitational forces from nuclei remain constant unless mass or gravitational constants change, implying that gravity's effect on electron behavior is negligible.
  • A participant proposes that increased molecular collisions in lower gravity could impart more kinetic energy to orbiting electrons, potentially affecting their behavior.
  • It is noted that the relationship between heat, pressure, and electron behavior is minimal and primarily relevant for understanding deviations from ideal gas behavior.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the existence of observations or experiments that measure differences in molecular behavior under varying gravity conditions, citing the small effect of gravity on electronic structure.
  • Questions arise regarding whether the effects of gravity on pressure and density differ from direct gravitational effects on electron behavior, and whether experiments have been conducted to measure electron positions in varying gravity or pressure conditions.
  • One participant mentions that molecular kinetic energy may influence electron orbital motion, referencing phase changes in water at different altitudes as a potential example of gravity and pressure effects.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus; multiple competing views remain regarding the influence of gravity on electron behavior and the significance of heat and pressure in this context.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the unresolved nature of how gravity interacts with electronic structure and the lack of empirical evidence for the proposed effects in varying gravitational conditions.

brainstorm
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I don't know if this is a thermodynamics issue or a quantum mechanics one. It seems like there should be some relationship between the average heat and pressure of a system and the behavior of electrons orbiting nuclei. Does anyone know if there are any observations and experiments that have established differences in molecular behavior in different gravity situations? It seems to me that the average energy level of atomic electrons should be lower in lower gravity b/c of the reduced gravitational force determining pressure, but I can't figure out if there would be a way to measure this and I don't know what to google to research it.
 
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Why would it be lower? The gravitational forces of a nuclei, regardless of how small, should be the same unless you somehow change the mass or gravitational constant.

But even if there was some effect the electromagnetic force is much stronger than gravitational forces.

Unless you're somehow referencing tidal forces which are not really an issue since the size of an atom is very small.
 
Feldoh said:
Why would it be lower? The gravitational forces of a nuclei, regardless of how small, should be the same unless you somehow change the mass or gravitational constant.

But even if there was some effect the electromagnetic force is much stronger than gravitational forces.

Unless you're somehow referencing tidal forces which are not really an issue since the size of an atom is very small.

I'm not talking about gravity between the atomic particles themselves. I'm talking about gravity having an effect on the heat-pressure ratio of a system, which would increase and possibly intensify the frequency of molecular collisions. This in turn, I would think, would impart more average momentum into the orbiting electrons, which in turn would affect their behavior.

In other words, the attractive force between the nucleus and the electrons would be the same, but the electrons would receive more KE more often from collisions with other molecules. This, I would think, would be a mechanism through which planetary gravity would affect the energy-levels of electrons orbiting a nucleus.
 
brainstorm said:
It seems like there should be some relationship between the average heat and pressure of a system and the behavior of electrons orbiting nuclei.

Not much of a relationship. It's only explicitly needed to understand the deviation from ideal gas behavior.

Does anyone know if there are any observations and experiments that have established differences in molecular behavior in different gravity situations?

There are no such observations, because the effect of gravity on electronic structure is far too small to be measured.
 
alxm said:
Not much of a relationship. It's only explicitly needed to understand the deviation from ideal gas behavior.
Why is this?

There are no such observations, because the effect of gravity on electronic structure is far too small to be measured.
Do you mean the DIRECT effect of gravity, or the effect of gravity in determining the overall pressure/density of a system?

Have there been experiments to measure electron position in lower or higher gravity situations? What about under different pressure conditions?

I guess if the effect of the Earth's gravity is not that significant at the level of individual molecules, there would be no difference between increasing pressure through gravity and doing so by containing the system and reducing the volume?

I assume that molecular KE does have an effect on electron orbit motion insofar as certain levels of heat induce chemical reactions or phase changes. I've read that water boils (and freezes?) at temperatures other than 100/0 C depending on altitude. Is this due to atmospheric pressure, gravity, or both? Have other differences in chemical behavior been observed besides phase-changes in water?
 

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