Relative Observed Speed: Earth-Falling Objects & Time Dilation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the observed speed of objects falling towards Earth and the implications of time dilation in different scenarios. Participants explore how these concepts relate to gravitational effects and relative motion, considering both theoretical and observational perspectives.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether a remote observer sees an object falling towards Earth as increasing its speed or moving at a constant speed, emphasizing the need for clarity on the reference frame.
  • Another participant asserts that a remote observer would see the object's speed relative to Earth increasing, provided they can observe both the object and Earth.
  • Concerns are raised about time dilation effects for an object that has fallen to a planet compared to one in orbit, noting that time dilation depends on the object's path through spacetime.
  • It is suggested that time dilation is influenced by both speed and altitude, indicating that more information is needed to compare the time dilation of two objects in different states of motion.
  • One participant argues that as an object approaches Earth, its time appears to slow down from the perspective of a remote observer, questioning if this leads to a perception of constant motion.
  • Another participant clarifies that while an object's time appears to slow down to a remote observer, this does not affect the speed measurement of the object itself.
  • Discussion includes the idea that gravitational time dilation affects all matter, not just objects in free fall, and is dependent on altitude in a static gravitational field.
  • Participants note that kinematic time dilation is also a factor, where faster-moving clocks run slower relative to a stationary observer.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between speed, time dilation, and the perspective of remote observers. There is no consensus on how these factors interact, particularly regarding the effects of gravity and motion on perceived time and speed.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of specific details about the trajectories and conditions of the objects discussed, which affects the ability to make definitive comparisons regarding time dilation.

LM542
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When an object is flying to the Earth and it's increasing it's speed through gravity, does a remote observer see this increase of speed too, or will he see the object moving at a constant speed?

And another question:
Is there any time dilation by the remains of an object that hits a planet (that is not spinning), compared to an object that's flying in the same orbit as the planet. The first object has lost it's momentum and is now moving with the same speed as the second object. Is the time dilation on both objects the same?
 
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LM542 said:
When an object is flying to the Earth and it's increasing it's speed through gravity, does a remote observer see this increase of speed too

By "speed" I assume you mean "speed relative to the Earth". Speed is relative, so you have to specify what it is relative to.

Assuming that's what you meant, then yes, a remote observer, assuming he was able to see the object in the first place (and the Earth, for that matter), would see the object's speed relative to the Earth increasing.

LM542 said:
Is there any time dilation by the remains of an object that hits a planet (that is not spinning), compared to an object that's flying in the same orbit as the planet.

It depends on the planet and the trajectories the two objects are following. In general, yes, an object's elapsed time in a curved spacetime depends on the path the object takes through spacetime.

LM542 said:
Is the time dilation on both objects the same?

Time dilation in a gravitational field doesn't just depend on speed. It also depends on altitude. You haven't given enough information to compare the time dilation of the two objects.
 
@PeterDonis:
1. Doesn't the time slows down for the object?
The closer the object comes to the Earth the slower it's time goes, so shouldn't the remote observer see a constant motion?

2. Does gravity even have a time dilation effect on matter that's not giving into gravity? The time of an object that's flying to the Earth (right before it reaches the ground) is slower than an object that's lying on the ground, but when it's hitting the ground it, it will be the same.
 
LM542 said:
Doesn't the time slows down for the object?

Not according to the object. According to the remote observer, yes, the object's time will appear to go slower, but that's a separate thing from the speed the remote observer measures for the object.

It is true that, if the central mass is not the Earth but a black hole, the object's motion will appear to the remote observer to slow down when it gets close to the hole's horizon. (The Earth is nowhere near compact enough for its mass for any effect like this to show up.) But up until that point, the object will appear to the remote observer to be speeding up.

LM542 said:
Does gravity even have a time dilation effect on matter that's not giving into gravity?

Yes. In a static gravitational field like that of the Earth, gravitational time dilation is a function of altitude--a clock at a lower altitude runs slower. There is also kinematic time dilation, which is a function of speed--a clock moving faster relative to the Earth runs slower.
 

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