Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, 6 YTBN Shot, Killed In Tuscon AZ

[turbo]

According to Wikipedia, DLC members includes Hillary Clinton and Joe Lieberman, and President Obama, a non-DLC has "surrounded himself with DLC members".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Leadership_Council
So, YES, Evo, I will regard the DLC think tank as a ainstream thread of the Democratic Party, among several other threads, I'm sure.

Can you dismember your rhetoric of US politics? If not, it is a bit disturbing to handle a Scandinavian-based diatribe with no pesronal motivation. Catch a clue here.

 

[arildno]

The it's an offshoot, I guess you could say.

From what I know, the Tea Party is a rather extremist off-shoot of the Republican Party, that many Republicans are embarassed by.

DLC, however, is a pretty influential non-extremist sub-group in the Democratic Party that I do not think any Democrats should be ashamed of being politically affiliated with.

Nor with their "Target Strategy Map" with bullseyes painted on Republican targets.

 

[nismaratwork]

finger pointing and monday morning quarterbacking isn't helpful here. crazy people do crazy things for crazy reasons. this has happened before, it has happened again, and will likely happen yet again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hinckley,_Jr.

Another great argument why the pathology is more important than what the pathological person has to say. It's HOW they say it...

Besides, why kill Giffords of all people if he was truly politically motivated? Crazy with a capital SCREWY.

 

[mheslep]

Okay, nismara!

I assume neither DLC members Hillary Clinton or Loe Lieberman have anything to do with mainstream Democratic thought, do they?

Or Bill Clinton, Evan Bayh, ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Leadership_Council#Chairs

 

[arildno]

Well, I don't hate Palin, but I think you'd count me as a "Palin Hater", and I think she has nothing to do with this. I loathe Glenn Beck, but he didn't do this either. You can talk in generalities, but you're talking to me and I don't have those views you describe.

So, we know this guy was insane, and we know he fits the pattern of someone is also violent. It's reasonable to assume that there was a trigger in his life for this, but I'd guess it was something that occurred in his life; moving back home, school, women onset of schizophrenia...etc. I think what Americans are finding so disturbing is that Loughner has the appearance of being a kind of violent incarnation of this poisonous political climate.

Let me make this easy: Look up what Giffords had to say about the map... it's NOT usual. Don't mistake the Bush W., and post period with the NORM of American politics. You seem very confident about an assessment that I can only describe as fatally flawed.

YOU are the one talking in generalities, not me.

I'm speaking of that target map from DLC.
Is that offensive to you? It shouldn't be.
Nor should the one from Palin be.

 

[nismaratwork]

Wow... suddenly mheslep and arildno forget the difference between causal and casual! I wonder what other organizations they're members of... does that mean that every organization they're part of is an offshoot of the DNC?

Arildno: The Tea Party is... the tea party. Period... as much as I'd love to believe that they're an "offshoot" of the RNC. I'd say the Tea Party is, if anything, the Fox News party, and opposed to some extent to the GOP... which is odd.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

CNN: The attack was planed.

 

[WhoWee]

Yes, wrong photo. But ...

I may be ignorant, but I’m not deranged, and if you are trying to tell me that Palin, Glenn & The Tea Party has nothing whatsoever in common – you might as well try to convince me Tiger Woods' ex-wife has never seen golf balls.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CY5aFvRe2E

I'm a little confused - do you have a link with Glenn Beck telling anyone to shoot a politician? I've heard him say the exact opposite.

 

[nismaratwork]

YOU are the one talking in generalities, not me.

I'm speaking of that target map from DLC.
Is that offensive to you? It shouldn't be.
Nor should the one from Palin be.

Hmmm... that SS reference really stung huh? I'm not offended by the target map, but the, I'm not easily offended. In fact, it takes something like an ex-members views on rape to really get me offended, or something equally atrocious.

The Palin map doesn't offend me either... it's... almost as though you haven't read my posts at all. I'm in the: Loughner is INSANE camp... your side-discussion is meaningless tripe I have no stake in. Forstår? Arroganse. Antagelser. Føl skam.

 

[Proton Soup]

Another great argument why the pathology is more important than what the pathological person has to say. It's HOW they say it...

Besides, why kill Giffords of all people if he was truly politically motivated? Crazy with a capital SCREWY.

at this point, I'm leaning in the direction of she was simply convenient. but I'm sure a more complete picture will evolve soon. I've been trying to avoid a discussion of his political beliefs, but based on his videos, i think they're leaning in a libertarian direction.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

Can you dismember your rhetoric of US politics? If not, it is a bit disturbing to handle a Scandinavian-based diatribe with no pesronal motivation. Catch a clue here.

wath is das wroung whith de smarta Greta from das hgigh mönoutingh inn das goutten Schaandinavina ploiticla gennnuies??

()

 

[nismaratwork]

at this point, I'm leaning in the direction of she was simply convenient. but I'm sure a more complete picture will evolve soon. I've been trying to avoid a discussion of his political beliefs, but based on his videos, i think they're leaning in a libertarian direction.

I think you're right, with the exception that I don't think someone with the level of thought disturbance evident in his writing can be said to have politics.

 

[nismaratwork]

Or Bill Clinton, Evan Bayh, ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Leadership_Council#Chairs

Do you also agree with arildno that the Tea Party is an offshoot of the GOP, of which that august body is now ashamed?

 

[arildno]

A terrible and horrible tragedy...

And serious guys – why all this ballistic talk...?? WTF is going on? This will keep me awake tonight:

http://www.boingboing.net/2011/01/08/congresswoman-gabrie.html"

Oh man... I really really hope, as much as it seems like a fair hypothesis, that such things had nothing to do with this. I really do.

I should note, I was incorrect about the name of the shooter: it is: Jared Lee Laughner, 22 years old, weapons recovered. We'll probably have more answers than anyone wants soon, and hopefully I'm pessimistic and wrong; this was not a bullet that penetrated her skull, and those still in danger won't die. I hope, but I doubt.

Hmmm... that SS reference really stung huh? I'm not offended by the target map, but the, I'm not easily offended. In fact, it takes something like an ex-members views on rape to really get me offended, or something equally atrocious.

The Palin map doesn't offend me either... it's... almost as though you haven't read my posts at all. I'm in the: Loughner is INSANE camp... your side-discussion is meaningless tripe I have no stake in. Forstår? Arroganse. Antagelser. Føl skam.

Of course I don't read what you write any longer. Because you PLAY GAMES.

It was DevilsAvocado and yourself who brought this damn map into this thread to begin with, (with wagging fingers at Palin.)

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Wow... suddenly mheslep and arildno forget the difference between causal and casual! I wonder what other organizations they're members of... does that mean that every organization they're part of is an offshoot of the DNC?

Arildno: The Tea Party is... the tea party. Period... as much as I'd love to believe that they're an "offshoot" of the RNC. I'd say the Tea Party is, if anything, the Fox News party, and opposed to some extent to the GOP... which is odd.

The tea party is whatever you want it to be. There is no "party". There are no designated leaders. There is no reasoned platform. There is no accountability to voters or reality. It is just a bunch of angry people lapping up the hype from Beck, Palin, Limbaugh, and anyone else yelling into a microphone and exploiting our precious right to freedom of speech, for money.

To me, what probably matters more than any definite link between Palin or Fox, and this shooting, is the fact that there could be one. They have made their beds. They chose to exploit the masses. They chose to lie; to exploit fear and anger. Now they have to live with the consequences of their actions. There will always be a question in people's minds as to whether Palin caused this or not. It will never go away.

 

[Proton Soup]

I think you're right, with the exception that I don't think someone with the level of thought disturbance evident in his writing can be said to have politics.

i disagree, but i also don't want to come across like I'm blaming libertarians for him just because i think he was bent in that direction. their mainstream ideology rejects the use of force, anyway.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

I'm a little confused - do you have a link with Glenn Beck telling anyone to shoot a politician? I've heard him say the exact opposite.

It’s very easy to get a little confused if you just bump in and hit on the first post you see, without getting the full context in earlier posts.

 

[nismaratwork]

Of course I don't read what you write any longer. Because you PLAY GAMES.

It was DevilsAvocado and yourself who brought this damn map into this thread to begin with, not me. (with wagging fingers at Palin.)

I had nothing to do with the map, but you're right, I love games; I'm a big fan of Hearts, Egyptian Ratscrew, Go, and some videogames. Other than that, it seems that you've just melted down into insults.

So, joking aside, what games am I playing?! I've been pretty damned clear about my view on this, even if you can't be bothered to read Min Buhund gutt.

 

[nismaratwork]

i disagree, but i also don't want to come across like I'm blaming libertarians for him just because i think he was bent in that direction. their mainstream ideology rejects the use of force, anyway.

AFAIK you're correct, but again, I'm just not convinced that his mental status allows for something like a real ideology... then again you said leaning only. I guess we'll see over the coming months... as much as can be gleaned from this little ****.

 

[nismaratwork]

The tea party is whatever you want it to be. There is no "party". There are no designated leaders. There is no reasoned platform. There is no accountability to voters or reality. It is just a bunch of angry people lapping up the hype from Beck, Palin, Limbaugh, and anyone else yelling into a microphone and exploiting our precious right to freedom of speech, for money.

To me, what probably matters more than any definite link between Palin or Fox, and this shooting, is the fact that there could be one. They have made their beds. They chose to exploit the masses. They chose to lie; to exploit fear and anger. Now they have to live with the consequences of their actions. There will always be a question in people's minds as to whether Palin caused this or not. It will never go away.

Yes... this is going to be a political issue for a long time, but... I don't agree with you Ivan. I would if this guy didn't have the history he did in school and with the law and military, but as it is...

Why Giffords?... and really I think that trying to glean more than a general sense of his mental state from what we know is premature. I would be surprised if this turned out to be that simple to be honest... I think this guy had a grudge because of his failures vs. his perceived superiority.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

... Certainly if such a thing were true, it would be cause for concern, and violent revolution would be considered under this premise heroic. Is it true?

Well, the "Second Revolution" flag seems to be ready for delivery...

And I still haven’t got any answers on how Sarah Palin gets 30% in the polls...?

There seems to be some hope and no hope:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgec9WX21ik

 

[nismaratwork]

Wow... what the hell is that flag?! That looks like the confederate flag, the US flag, and the union jack ****ed a centurion.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

Why Giffords?...

He got a letter from her...

 

[arildno]

The most likely reason why this crazy guy shot Giffords was that she was a down-to-earth politician who liked to mingle freely among her voters. An irresistible magnet to a guy who thought that through the control of grammar, politicians exercised mind control. Finally, he could come close to one of them.

And no, IvanSeeking, Sarah Palin had nothing whasoever to do with this killing, however much you desire that connection to exist.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

Wow... what the hell is that flag?!

And I thought you guys were the experts here!?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement

 

[nismaratwork]

He got a letter from her...

I thought that was just a mass-mailing? I honestly don't know, but why would she send him a personal letter? God, if he just picked her because of a mailing... ugly... that is UGLY.

arildno: Now THAT... makes sense. Access, and the ability to vilify her given time... yeah, that works.

 

[nismaratwork]

And I thought you guys were the experts here!?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement

Oh man, we have to LIVE with these nuts... I try not to pay attention to them outside of PF discussions... too upsetting.

...and thanks for the link... I SHOULD have known that one.

 

[arildno]

I don't think Jared Lee Loughner had any particular antipathy to Gabrielle Giffords at all.

If he had had that, he would have ranted about it on Youtube and MySpace, and we had heard about it already.

We DO however, have a message that he could feel like killing a...policeman.

Now, what a mouth-watering event it would be to him that a high-ranking, "evil" politician would come close to where he lived, who, moreover, didn't have any bodyguards. Now THAT would make a better target than anyone else, wouldn't it?

The whole massacre was apolitical.
That is why, for example, it is sheer malevolence from people like Paul Krugman in the New York Times to link him up to the Palin crowd.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

...and thanks for the link... I SHOULD have known that one.

It's cool. :)

CNN: Shooter was turned down when buying ammo at Wal-Mart.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

I thought that was just a mass-mailing?

"A letter" was all I heard from CNN, maybe mass-mail, don’t know...