Repulsive Forces: Gravity, EM & Nuclear Forces

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In summary, the conversation discusses the attractive and repulsive natures of gravitational and electromagnetic forces. It is mentioned that the two nuclear forces also exhibit repulsive behavior. The possibility of a repulsive force keeping the planets from falling into the Sun is suggested, and the concept of angels as this force is brought up. One individual is called a "crackpot" for their ideas.
  • #1
Claude Bile
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Gravitation is always attractive,
Electromagnetism is sometimes attractive, sometimes repulsive.

Here's my questions:

Do the two nuclear forces exhibit any repulsive behaviour, in any shape, way or form, or are they always attractive like gravity?

What about the cosmological constant? Is it a repulsive form of another force, or a totally new force?
 
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  • #2
Originally posted by Claude Bile
Do the two nuclear forces exhibit any repulsive behaviour, in any shape, way or form, or are they always attractive like gravity?
Short answer: yes

Long answer: It turns out 'particles' and 'forces' are a bad way to think about the nuclear forces (and the other ones at small scales.) A better way is to think about fields and interaction energy terms, or vertices and virtual particles.

However, if you insist upon it, the strong nuclear force is vaguely like electromagnetism, except with three 'charges', called colors: red, blue, and green. The strong force acts to enforce color-neutrality, just as the electromagnetic force acts to enforce charge-neutrality. So like colors repel, while unlike colors attract.
 
  • #3
Yep, and two protons have an energy curve due to the strong force that looks quite a bit like an ionic bond curve - asymptotic at close distances, with a minimum, and horizontal asymptote at large distances.
 
  • #4
Originally posted by Claude Bile
Gravitation is always attractive,
Electromagnetism is sometimes attractive, sometimes repulsive.


Hi Claude,

Your stipulation that gravitation is always attractive overlooks the possibility that some mysterious repulsive force must exist to explain why the planets do not fall into the Sun. While your second stipulation is valid there is no way that electromagnetism can account for the mystery. Perhaps the nature of the mystery force might be better understood by an analogy of the force fields present in the stable two-electron QM orbital.

The property of repulsion of like charges follows from the monopolar electrostatic force but then nature has intrinsically and permanently coupled the unit charge to its unitary mass (emu) where it exists as another monopolar but attractive force [as you have stipulated]. But hold on: it has been known for decades that the ratio of these supposedly compensating forces is so overwhelmingly dominated by the electrostatic force that there must be another force that keeps the orbital from flying apart. The realization that spin is another intrinsic property of these orbital electrons leads to the dipolar aspect of monopolar charge that is called magnetism. Now if one imagines the two orbital electrons as having parallel spins, then the magnetic force would be repulsive; on the other hand, the freedom of electrons to flip led Pauli to his valid discovery that allows the attractive force that would compensate electrostatic repulsion. So far three forces have been identified and none of them accounts for the energy and non-radiative stability of the orbital. First off, if the magnetic force exactly compensated the electrostatic force, nothing much would happen suggesting that magnetic attraction exceeds electrostatic repulsion and therefore the mysterious missing force must be repulsive.

Considering the loop character of the orbital, it is easy to see that nature uses voltage to determine radius and current that satisfies Planck’s distinctly positioned orbital. Of course it was logical to dismiss monopolar mass but without some dipolar aspect of electronic mass there would be no torque to exactly counter the loop magnetic dipolar attribute of the loop electron current. Furthermore, without the angular momentum necessary to permanently fix the orbital, energy would have to be continuously maintained. Looking back at the intrinsic spin-property of the electron and remembering that along with the spinning charge that produced dipolar magnetism the spinning iota of mass is the mysterious dipolar force that is responsible for the centrifugal force required for the creation of matter.
Thanks for your audience. Cheers, Jim
 
  • #5
Your stipulation that gravitation is always attractive overlooks the possibility that some mysterious repulsive force must exist to explain why the planets do not fall into the Sun.
Angels. There are angels, keeping them from falling into the Sun, and pushing them too -- something's got to be keeping them moving, right?
 
  • #6
Wow... I actually wasn't aware that NEOclassic was a crackpot.

- Warren
 
  • #7


Originally posted by NEOclassic
Hi Claude,

Your stipulation that gravitation is always attractive overlooks the possibility that some mysterious repulsive force must exist to explain why the planets do not fall into the Sun.


... Cheers, Jim

Planets actually do, and all the time. The Sun is simply too small (and planets are too far from it), so they just miss it all the time.
 
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  • #8
Will your bad day ever end?

Originally posted by chroot
Wow... I actually wasn't aware that NEOclassic was a crackpot.

- Warren
Warren you really are a negative entity in this forum. Instead of shooting off with such as "crackpot", really read the post and dish out a little constructive criticism or is your mind closed to Quantum theory expressed in other than QED's "standing wave" modeling of a Pauli two-electron quantum orbital.
 
  • #9


Originally posted by NEOclassic
Warren you really are a negative entity in this forum. Instead of shooting off with such as "crackpot", really read the post and dish out a little constructive criticism or is your mind closed to Quantum theory expressed in other than QED's "standing wave" modeling of a Pauli two-electron quantum orbital.
Your post began with "some mysterious repulsive force must exist to explain why the planets do not fall into the Sun," crackpot. How much more does one need to read?

- Warren
 
  • #10
LOL this thread has exquisite oneliners


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your stipulation that gravitation is always attractive overlooks the possibility that some mysterious repulsive force must exist to explain why the planets do not fall into the Sun.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Angels. There are angels, keeping them from falling into the Sun, and pushing them too -- something's got to be keeping them moving, right?



----------------------------------------------------------------
Your stipulation that gravitation is always attractive overlooks the possibility that some mysterious repulsive force must exist to explain why the planets do not fall into the Sun.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Planets actually do, and all the time. The Sun is simply too small (and planets are too far from it), so they just miss it all the time.


****************
nothing can top these
I guess Kepler would have preferred the angels explanation
and Newton would go along with them falling but always missing
so we have good authority on both sides
my own two-bits is that the original poster started
the thread asking, among other things, if the
cosmological constant is a force then is it a new force
or a repulsive force. I don't think it is a force at all
(tho it might be an energy density). Does anyone want
to reply to the original poster on that?

PS this is a great board and everybody is to be
congratulated, even the crackpots(as chroot calls them)
are good crackpots IMHO
 
  • #11
Eh... Alexander wasn't joking. There is indeed in circular motion an unbalanced acceleration towards the centre of mass of the system. The planets just have enough of a tangential velocity to miss it every time.
 
  • #12
Originally posted by FZ+
Eh... Alexander wasn't joking. There is indeed in circular motion an unbalanced acceleration towards the centre of mass of the system. The planets just have enough of a tangential velocity to miss it every time.

Er...I realize that, which is why I said Newton would agree
with that picture.

Kepler, on the other hand, would have inclined towards
the agency of angels I suspect. Alexander's way of putting
it was however a witty comeback "they do fall into the sun
but it is so small they keep missing" and made me laugh.
sometimes the truth appears in a comic light.
 

Related to Repulsive Forces: Gravity, EM & Nuclear Forces

1. What is the difference between repulsive and attractive forces?

Repulsive forces are forces that push or repel objects away from each other, while attractive forces pull objects towards each other. In terms of particles, repulsive forces act between particles with the same charge, while attractive forces act between particles with opposite charges.

2. How does gravity play a role in repulsive forces?

Gravity is an attractive force, meaning it pulls objects towards each other. In the case of repulsive forces, gravity can counteract other repulsive forces and keep objects from flying apart. For example, gravity holds the planets in orbit around the sun, despite the repulsive forces between them.

3. What are some examples of repulsive forces?

Some examples of repulsive forces include the electromagnetic force between two positively charged particles, the nuclear force between two protons, and the pressure between two objects when they are compressed together. Repulsive forces are also responsible for the buoyant force that keeps objects afloat in water.

4. How do repulsive forces affect the behavior of particles?

The presence of repulsive forces between particles can affect their behavior in several ways. For example, repulsive forces between atoms in a solid material give it its rigid structure. In the case of subatomic particles, repulsive forces can determine the stability of an atom and the types of chemical reactions that can occur.

5. Can repulsive forces be stronger than attractive forces?

Yes, repulsive forces can be stronger than attractive forces in certain situations. For example, the repulsive forces between two protons in the nucleus of an atom can be stronger than the attractive nuclear force, causing the nucleus to break apart in a process called nuclear fission. In general, the strength of repulsive and attractive forces depends on the distance between the objects and the magnitude of their charges or masses.

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