Researching Oil Coolers & Filters for F1 Car Engine

[sandraf1]

i have a groub project which am facing lots of problems with it as am a girl and my knowladge in cars and engins very poor

we are trying to improve a sump system in a formula one car engine (yamaha r6 bsl 600cc)
the group has already decided not to use an oil cooler in the system and mu job is to Research on oil coolers, why we are not using them in our system? Research filters and identify an exact oil filter we need to use including mounting. (an external oil filter should come with bracket).

my question is , why we are not usuing the oil cooler in out system , so what is the disadvantages could be ? why in details ...

please if anyone can help ?

 

[MikeeMiracle]

It sound like your are talking about bikes not Formula 1. Formula 1 engines are 3.5l V8, not 600cc. You are either referring to "Superbikes" or "Moto GP" bikes, both are racing formula's, Moto GP are sometimes know as the Formula 1 of the motor bike world, I think that is where you are getting confused and have probably been trying to research the wrong subject.

 

[sandraf1]

It sound like your are talking about bikes not Formula 1. Formula 1 engines are 3.5l V8, not 600cc. You are either referring to "Superbikes" or "Moto GP" bikes, both are racing formula's, Moto GP are sometimes know as the Formula 1 of the motor bike world, I think that is where you are getting confused and have probably been trying to research the wrong subject.

forget about the engine size , is there any way i can explain why we are not usuing oil cooling , maybe we can talk about the disadvantges or any thing i can provide them

 

[MikeeMiracle]

The reason I pointed it out was so that you can have a new avenue of research as generally all car engines are cooled the same way but bike engine cooling can be liquid, air, or oil cooled.

If you start researching bike engines I fell you will have more luck. I can start you off..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle_engine#Engine_cooling

 

[sandraf1]

The reason I pointed it out was so that you can have a new avenue of research as generally all car engines are cooled the same way but bike engine cooling can be liquid, air, or oil cooled.

If you start researching bike engines I fell you will have more luck. I can start you off..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle_engine#Engine_cooling

i know exactly where u coming from , u r right , our reserach in the oil cooling only is bike engine (oil cooled) , i saw the link u send but its just explain , what i want is what can make us not using the oil cooling in our system what's is the disadvantges our the resons that make us not usin it

cheers

 

[berkeman]

i know exactly where u coming from , u r right , our reserach in the oil cooling only is bike engine (oil cooled) , i saw the link u send but its just explain , what i want is what can make us not using the oil cooling in our system what's is the disadvantges our the resons that make us not usin it

cheers

Can you calculate the effectiveness of the 3 different types of cooling for the engine? (Air, oil, or water)

Then think about how this engine is used (and that is why you need to know the engine size, vehicle type, race type and length, typical ambient temperatures, etc.). When you have all that information, you will probably see why you would choose the same cooling system that the R6 supersport does.

[PLAIN]http://www.mcnews.com.au/Wallpaper/Yamaha/R6/2006/2006_yzf-r6_mono_edwards_1024.jpg

 

[sandraf1]

Can you calculate the effectiveness of the 3 different types of cooling for the engine? (Air, oil, or water)

Then think about how this engine is used (and that is why you need to know the engine size, vehicle type, race type and length, typical ambient temperatures, etc.). When you have all that information, you will probably see why you would choose the same cooling system that the R6 supersport does.

[PLAIN]http://www.mcnews.com.au/Wallpaper/Yamaha/R6/2006/2006_yzf-r6_mono_edwards_1024.jpg[/QUOTE]

i have been in touch with the leader of the group and , my problem is english not my first luangauge . what he said as the following
hi sandra
regard oil cooler its all dependant on the size and mounting. it is a lot harder to design a system to incorporate a water/oil cooler using water as a cooling medium. possibly use an oil cooler that incorporates a flow of air through it? just needs researching and how to mount it that's all

all what i want to do for nw is what he asking , any advice ?? i don't want to invent anything i just wana do what i have been told ,,, wish u can help

 

[berkeman]

Our PF user Ranger Mike is the resident expert on race engines. I'll PM him to see if can take a look at your questions...

 

[berkeman]

BTW, I was googling some, and apparently there is a "Formula 1" class of small race cars that does use 600cc sportbike engines in their cars, heavily modified. This discussion thread talks about altering the fuel for the engine, and adding an oil cooler to help reliability. In a racecar use of this sportbike engine, you would have room (and could stand the extra weight) of an oil cooler:

http://www.microracing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4085

.

 

[Ranger Mike]

Hi all..just home from holiday out of town visit and what a great way to start NEW YEAR...let me unpack and be back to you shortly..
btw..welcome to the forum..
RM

 

[Ranger Mike]

I have been through this goat rope last year with our formula car. we did not run an oil cooler..we overheated but did not boil over. This year we will run a small oil cooler.

In order to win races you need horsepower. It takes heat to make decent horsepower..too much heat will cause detonation, oil break down and component failure, warp cylinder heads, break down rubber o-ring seals, and a host of other bad things. In my opinion, not running an oil cooler on a performance engine is insane. You are only asking for trouble.

from Amsoil web site...
Engine heat is created from friction of moving parts and the ignition of fuel inside the cylinder. Oil carries heat away from these hot surfaces as it flows downward and dissipates heat to the surrounding air when it reaches the crankcase.

Besides lubrication the other function of motor oil is to cool the engine. The radiator/antifreeze system is responsible for about 60 percent of the engine cooling that takes place. This cools only the upper portion of the engine, including the cylinder heads, cylinder walls and valves.

The other 40 percent is cooled by the oil. Of this 40 percent, I estimate that 10 percent of the cooling is applied to hot surfaces, such as the crankshaft, main and connecting rod bearings, the camshaft and its bearings, the timing gears and 30 percent is applied to the bottom of the pistons and cylinder walls in the lower portion of the engine. This is a lot of heat that is not controlled or addressed if you do not run an oil cooler.

Lubricating an engine actually requires a very small amount of motor oil compared to the amount need to ensure proper cooling of these internal parts. The oil pump constantly circulates the oil to all vital areas of the engine. Now think about this. Engine oil temperature usually is 20 degrees hotter than the maximum water temperature. A good race engine would run 220 degrees to make decent power so you have oil cooking at 250 degrees.

Is an oil cooler required...YES

You stated you plan to race an open wheel formula car...this means you have limited space and even more limited ability to mount a flat finned device to exchange heat with ambient air ( no room to hang a radiator and maintain some kind of aerodynamics).

You can get effective oil cooling with IN LINE cooler mounted close to hi flow air flowing over the car body. Weight is negligible for long life of engine.

Lastly- oil filter discussion. You are using a miniscule 600 cc engine. Any parasitic drag will impact overall HP. Any time you route the oil to make a 90 degree turn you drop the psi by a few psi...up to 5 psi on a full race V8..it takes hp to pump oil ..forget about canister filters , go with in-line micron mesh oil filter that will provide minimum drag. in line means in line so easy access and no mounting problems. You have several mesh ratings to choose from as well. Typically in a race engine you don't care about dirt, (if you have dirt and dust inside the engine you got no business on the starting grid because you are an idiot) you want to prevent small metal bits from coming in contact with t he bearings. These shavings and bits break off from components through stress or fatigue over time.

Lastly, no one competitive runs standard motor oil. there are four classes of oil and we run the class $ type which costs about $ 8 a quart. It is worth it if you are running a small displacement engine with restrictive rules. it is all about parasitic drag and maximum efficiency.

one more thing..never break in a new engine with synthetic oil.
it is up to you to state the proper question..if i remember from my engineering classes
problem statement is critical so good luck
hope this helps
RM