RLC Circuit problem using laplace transforms

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving an RLC circuit problem using Laplace transforms, focusing on applying Kirchhoff's laws to derive equations for current and charge in the circuit. Participants are attempting to formulate differential equations based on the circuit's behavior after a switch is closed and are seeking assistance with the mathematical steps involved.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the initial problem statement, outlining the need to derive equations for currents (i, i1, i2) and charge (q(t)) in the circuit.
  • Another participant suggests using CODE tags to preserve the formatting of the circuit diagram.
  • There is a discussion about the equations derived from Kirchhoff's laws, with one participant expressing uncertainty about the application of Laplace transforms due to the presence of dq/dt in the equations.
  • One participant proposes that the equation i = i1 + i2 is valid and encourages others to express voltages in terms of the currents and charge.
  • Another participant summarizes the equations derived from the left and right loops of the circuit, questioning how to incorporate i2 into the Laplace transform process.
  • A participant expresses frustration over the lack of responses and the urgency of the homework deadline, indicating they have been struggling with the problem for several hours.
  • There is a suggestion to disregard one of the equations as it is not independent, and a reminder to use variables before substituting numerical values.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants are engaged in a collaborative effort to derive equations and clarify their understanding, but there is no consensus on the correct approach to applying Laplace transforms or the independence of the equations derived from Kirchhoff's laws. Multiple viewpoints are presented regarding the formulation of the equations and the role of i2.

Contextual Notes

Participants have noted limitations in their understanding of the circuit dynamics and the mathematical techniques required, particularly in relation to the Laplace transform and the treatment of charge flow into the capacitor.

tkaz23
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Homework Statement


The switch at S is closed at time t=0 and a constant ... va−vh=v0 is applied. Use Kirchoff's laws to write 3 equations for i,i1,i2, and q(t). What is the relation between q(t) and i,i1,i2? Given that the charge on C and all currents are initially zero, find an ODE for i1(t), given v0=1 volt, L=1 henry, C=1 farads, and R= 1 ohm.

Here is a picture of the RLC circuit (Hopefully this helps):
R i i_2
A___/\/\/\/\/___>__B___>___D
|aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa | aaaaaaa|
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa L $aaaaaaa C = q(t)
0 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa $aaaaaaaa|
|_________________|_________|
H G F

Disclaimer: Disregard the blank a's. I am new to this, and I don't know how to get this to read white space. Sorry.

1st part asks to set equations for i,i_1,i_2, and q(t),
2nd part asks for a single equation for i_1,
3rd part asks for solution of part 2 using laplace transforms as well as expansions (solutions to the others)

Any help is appreciated, and thank you in advance. I have stared at this for quite sometime, and I have gotten no where.

Homework Equations


Kirchoff's 2 laws and Laplace Transform table


The Attempt at a Solution


This is what I got so far, but trying to use Laplace transforms on the i_1 eqn seems wrong because of the dq/dt in the left hand side.
I have i=i_1+i_2, i_2=dq=dt, and that the equations or differential equations are as follows for:
i_1) Ri_1+L(di_1\dt)=v_0(t)-R(dq/dt)
q) (1/C)q(t)+R(dq/dt)=v_0(t)-Ri_1
 
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You need to use CODE tags to preserve spacing.

Code:
        R       i      i_2
A___/\/\/\/\/___>__B____>___D
|                  |        |
                 L $      C = q(t)
0                  $        |
|__________________|________|
H                  G        F
 
Thank you for the pointing that out.
 
tkaz23 said:

The Attempt at a Solution


This is what I got so far, but trying to use Laplace transforms on the i_1 eqn seems wrong because of the dq/dt in the left hand side.
I have i=i_1+i_2, i_2=dq=dt, and that the equations or differential equations are as follows for:
i_1) Ri_1+L(di_1\dt)=v_0(t)-R(dq/dt)
q) (1/C)q(t)+R(dq/dt)=v_0(t)-Ri_1
I take it i1 is the current through the inductor. If so, the equation ##i = i_1 + i_2## is fine.

I'm not sure how you got the other two equations. Start by first expressing the voltages VAB, VBG, and VDF in terms of i, i1, and q. If you go around the left loop (in a clockwise direction), KVL tells you that VAB+VBG+VGH+VHA = 0. What do you get when you substitute in the various values and expressions for those voltages?
 
You get i+(di_1/dt)-1=0 for the left loop, q(t)-(di_1/dt)=0 for the right loop, and i+q(t)-1=0 for the entire loop, if you do what you say to do. Now, we pretty much have one equation. However when trying to use a laplace transform on this, I am unsure of what to do with i_2.
 
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I'm sorry to bump this, but I need to get someone to reply to me soon. If I hadn't stared at this thing for 4-5 hours, I would not be asking for help, and it is due in about an hour and a half. Please help! I am trying my best to understand things in a field, that I have relatively little clue of what to do.
 
tkaz23 said:
You get i+(di_1/dt)-1=0 for the left loop, q(t)-(di_1/dt)=0 for the right loop, and i+q(t)-1=0 for the entire loop, if you do what you say to do. Now, we pretty much have one equation. However when trying to use a laplace transform on this, I am unsure of what to do with i_2.
Note you get your third equation if you add the first two equations together. It's not an independent equation, so you can toss it. Also, you should get in the habit of using variables and plugging the numbers in only at the end. So you have the equations
\begin{align*}
i_1 + i_2 &= i \\
Ri + L\frac{di_1}{dt} - V &= 0 \\
\frac{1}{C} q - L\frac{di_1}{dt} &= 0 \\
\end{align*}
To see how i2 works into this, you need to realize that i2 is the rate that charge flows into the capacitor. How do you express this mathematically?

tkaz23 said:
I'm sorry to bump this, but I need to get someone to reply to me soon. If I hadn't stared at this thing for 4-5 hours, I would not be asking for help, and it is due in about an hour and a half. Please help! I am trying my best to understand things in a field, that I have relatively little clue of what to do.
As you've discovered, it's best not to leave questions until the last minute. People offer help here on a volunteer basis, so while you'll often get a timely reply — that is, within a day or so — there's no guarantee that you'll get a quick reply.
 

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