Rotating Frames: charges in a magnetic field

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the dynamics of a charged particle in a magnetic field while orbiting another charged particle, specifically examining the relationship between inertial and rotating frames. Participants explore the implications of equations governing the motion and the conditions under which certain terms cancel out.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents an equation of motion for a charge +Q orbiting a charge -Q' in a magnetic field B, questioning the cancellation of terms proportional to the velocity in the rotating frame.
  • Another participant seeks clarification on the notation used, specifically regarding the cross product notation and whether the terms involved are scalars or vectors.
  • A later reply suggests that the scenario resembles the cyclotron frequency, proposing that the motion is purely radial in a frame rotating at this frequency.
  • Another participant reiterates the cyclotron frequency concept, introducing the term "Larmor frequency" and expressing confusion about the cancellation of velocity terms in the rotating frame.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of the equations and the physical implications of the terms involved. There is no consensus on the cancellation of terms or the overall dynamics described.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully resolved the definitions and implications of the terms used, particularly regarding the nature of the cross product and the conditions under which certain terms cancel. The discussion reflects a reliance on specific assumptions about the system's behavior in different frames.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in classical electromagnetism, dynamics of charged particles in magnetic fields, and the mathematical treatment of rotating frames may find this discussion relevant.

ian2012
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I've got a problem understanding a line of proof in my lecture notes.

Given that you have a charge of +Q and mass m orbiting a fixed particle of charge -Q' in the presence of a magnetic field B. The particle is moving slowly enough for relativistic effects to be ignored.

Given that:

[tex]m\hat{a_{I}}=-\frac{QQ'}{4\pi\epsilon_{0}r^{2}}\hat{r}+Q\hat{v_{I}} \times \hat{B}[/tex]

where [tex]\hat{v_{I}}[/tex] is the particle's velocity in the inertial frame.

Substituting

[tex]\hat{a_{I}}=\hat{a_{R}}+2\hat{\omega} \times \hat{v_{R}}+\hat{\omega} \times (\hat{\omega} \times \hat{r})[/tex]

into the first equation along with [tex]\hat{v_{I}}=\hat{v_{R}}+\hat{\omega} \times \hat{r}[/tex]

gives:

[tex]\hat{a_{R}}+2\hat{\omega} \times \hat{v_{R}}+\hat{\omega} \times (\hat{\omega} \times \hat{r})[/tex] = [tex]-\frac{QQ'}{4\pi\epsilon_{0}mr^{2}}\hat{r}+(\frac{Q}{m})[\hat{v_{R}}+(\hat{\omega} \times \hat{r})] \times \hat{B}[/tex]

Apparently the terms porportional to [tex]\hat{v_{R}}[/tex] cancel if [tex]\hat{\omega}=-\frac{Q}{2m}\hat{B}[/tex]

Why is this so? Visualizing the situation will probably help a lot.
 
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What is \omega \times r? Are these scalars or vectors? You are mixing scalars and vectors here.
 
Born2bwire said:
What is \omega \times r? Are these scalars or vectors? You are mixing scalars and vectors here.

I've corrected it now. The \times is supposed to be the cross product. I didn't know what the latex is for cross product.
 
This is just a guess. To me that looks like the cyclotron frequency in the presence of a net charge. So the motion is purely radial in a reference frame which is rotating at the cyclotron frequency.
 
DaleSpam said:
This is just a guess. To me that looks like the cyclotron frequency in the presence of a net charge. So the motion is purely radial in a reference frame which is rotating at the cyclotron frequency.

Well, the omega frequency is known as the larmor frequency. It is half the cyclotron frequency. The charge +Q is precessing around the charge -Q. I don't understand how the velocity in the rotating frame cancels, giving that it is orbiting in the rotating frame (which means there must be a v subscript R).
 

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