Rotational dynamics Find acceleration

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem in rotational dynamics, specifically focusing on the relationship between torque, tension, and acceleration in a system involving two wheels connected by a belt. Participants are analyzing the forces and torques acting on both the smaller and larger wheels.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the equations of motion for both wheels, questioning how to incorporate the tensions in the belt and the relationship between angular acceleration and linear acceleration. There is uncertainty about which radius to use for the smaller wheel's angular acceleration.

Discussion Status

Multiple equations have been established, but participants note a lack of sufficient equations to solve for all unknowns. Some guidance is provided regarding the cancellation of terms when combining equations, which leads to progress in the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the constraints of a homework assignment, which may limit the information available or the methods they can use. There is an acknowledgment of the complexities introduced by the elastic nature of the belt and its effect on tension.

ForceFail
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Homework Statement


http://imgur.com/eYoa8Ut

Homework Equations


Torque=rt=I(alpha)
t-mg=-ma
alpha = a/r

The Attempt at a Solution


t-mg=-ma is the equation for the hanging mass.
To find how much this turns the small wheel,
rt=I(alpha) I and r are known
rt=Ia/r

I'm not sure what to do from here. If I try and solve for a and t now, it gives an incorrect answer. I think this is due to me not doing anything with the larger wheel yet, but I'm not sure what to do with it. I know that the tension in the upper and lower part of the belt are not equal, and both produce torque of their own. Tupper should produce a clockwise moment, Tlower should produce a counterclockwise moment.
 
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ForceFail said:
Tupper should produce a clockwise moment, Tlower should produce a counterclockwise moment.
Quite so. So include these in your torque equation for the smaller wheel and write down the torque equation for the larger wheel.
 
So for the smaller wheel:
tr+(Tl)R-(Tu)R=I(alpha)
Larger wheel gives:
(Tu)(Rlw)-(Tl)(Rlw)=I(alpha)

So now I have 2 equations and four unknowns. t,(Tl),(Tu),(alpha)
I can write t=mg-ma and alpha as a/r, Does alpha = a/r for the small wheel use the smaller or larger radius? Since its a tangential I would assume the larger.
That gives
(mg-ma)r+(Tl)R-(Tu)R=Ia/R
and
(Tu)(Rlw)-(Tl)(Rlw)=Ia/(Rlw)

If this is right I'm now down to 3 unknowns and only 2 equations.
 
ForceFail said:
So for the smaller wheel:
tr+(Tl)R-(Tu)R=I(alpha)
Larger wheel gives:
(Tu)(Rlw)-(Tl)(Rlw)=I(alpha)

So now I have 2 equations and four unknowns. t,(Tl),(Tu),(alpha)
I can write t=mg-ma and alpha as a/r, Does alpha = a/r for the small wheel use the smaller or larger radius? Since its a tangential I would assume the larger.
That gives
(mg-ma)r+(Tl)R-(Tu)R=Ia/R
and
(Tu)(Rlw)-(Tl)(Rlw)=Ia/(Rlw)

If this is right I'm now down to 3 unknowns and only 2 equations.
Look carefully at how Tu and Tl appear in these equations. Notice anything?
 
haruspex said:
Look carefully at how Tu and Tl appear in these equations. Notice anything?

I see, multiplied equation 1 by R(lw) and equation 2 by R and added them. Then Tu and Tl cancel and you can solve for a. Got the right answer Thanks.
 
ForceFail said:
I see, multiplied equation 1 by R(lw) and equation 2 by R and added them. Then Tu and Tl cancel and you can solve for a. Got the right answer Thanks.
Good.
Note what this means physically. Suppose the belt is elastic. Making it tighter will increase both tensions equally, but won't affect the answer to the question.
 

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