Rotational energy conservation

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the conservation of energy in the context of a pin-ended free-falling rod, specifically addressing the relationship between linear and angular velocities in deriving the energy conservation equation. Participants explore the kinetic energy components involved in the motion of the rod.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about how to incorporate both angular and linear velocities in the energy conservation equation for a free-falling rod.
  • Another participant provides a formula for kinetic energy that includes both translational and rotational components, suggesting a specific relationship between the center of mass velocity and angular velocity.
  • A participant points out that the moment of inertia must be adjusted using the parallel axis theorem when considering rotation about the end of the rod.
  • There is a request for alternative methods to determine angular velocity, indicating a desire for further clarification or different approaches.
  • A later reply challenges the correctness of the initial solution, emphasizing the need to consistently apply either the kinetic energy of rotation about the center of mass or about the pin, but not both simultaneously.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach consensus, as there are competing views on how to correctly apply the principles of energy conservation in this scenario, particularly regarding the treatment of kinetic energy components.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the correct application of kinetic energy formulas and the implications of using different reference points for calculating moment of inertia.

dusurme
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Hi,
I am a little confused about the energy conservation of a pin ended free falling rod.
When i try to derive energy conservation equation i am not sure including angular and linear velocity at the same time. I try to visualize the problem in the attached picture and put my derivation also.
Any explanation will be appretiated.
Thanks.
 

Attachments

  • photo.jpg
    photo.jpg
    24.8 KB · Views: 444
Physics news on Phys.org
This is the kinetic energy in general:

KE = \frac{1}{2}m v_{cm}^2 + \frac{1}{2}I_{cm}\omega^2


for this example the velocity of the center of mass
v_{cm} = \frac{L}{2}\omega

KE = \frac{1}{2}m \frac{L^2}{4}\omega^2 + \frac{1}{2}I_{cm}\omega^2

Notice if the center of rotation is at the end of the rod, the angular velocity \omega is the same as for the center of rotation being the center of mass.

The moment of inertia changes by the parallel axis theorem
I_0 = I_{cm} + m\left(\frac{L}{2}\right)^2 = I_{cm} + m\frac{L^2}{4}

So we find that the rotational kinetic energy about the end of the rod is equal to the total kinetic energy from before.
\frac{1}{2}I_0\omega^2 = \frac{1}{2}\left(I_{cm} + m\frac{L^2}{4}\right)\omega^2 = KE
 
MisterX thanks for the answer.
Could you also suggest me an alternative way of determining angular velocity?
 
dusurme said:
MisterX thanks for the answer.
Could you also suggest me an alternative way of determining angular velocity?
No, he's saying that your solution is incorrect: either you use the kinetic energy of rotation with respect to the centre of mass (and then the moment of inertia is not the one you wrote) *and* the centre of mass' kinetic energy, or the kinetic energy of rotation with respect to the pin, *only* (with the moment of inertia you wrote).
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 39 ·
2
Replies
39
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 77 ·
3
Replies
77
Views
6K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
3K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
3K