Run Tisi, Run!

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  • #26
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kat said:
Lol, you can...you can..but just don't expect others to believe it. I think the lesson was learned during oslo..you remember when Israel armed arafats police force in good faith, only to have it used against them.
If there's anything that history has taught us, it's that when you're faced with the total failure of a diplomatic solution and the total failure of a military solution...you're screwed. :frown:
 
  • #27
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master_coda said:
Of course, this highlights the optimial solution to the terrorists Israel is killing...it would be much better if they were aprehended and punished by the Palestininan government. Unfortunatly they seem to be too weak to do anything useful at all.
That is correct. As soon as the Palestinian government starts to take care of the terrorism, IDF's presence in their territory would not be needed. Do you agree? In the absence of any action from their government, Israel has no choice but to do away with the terrorists on its own.
 
  • #28
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Chen said:
That is correct. As soon as the Palestinian government starts to take care of the terrorism, IDF's presence in their territory would not be needed. Do you agree? In the absence of any action from their government, Israel has no choice but to do away with the terrorists on its own.
My point was never that Isreal shouldn't try and eliminate terrorism, even if it requires the use of force. Just that assassinating a few thugs doesn't really accomplish anything. Killing someone who'll just be replaced by yet another thug is an empty victory.
 
  • #29
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That's another thing... it is a lot more than "a few thugs". Your newspapers only report the big fish, like Yasin and Rantisi, but we kill a lot more terrorists every day, and that's only from the reports in the Israeli press (who knows how many more we kill without telling anyone).
 
  • #30
member 5645
kat said:
Rantisi was a child preying (palestinian and israeli), hateful murderous scum. The world is a better place without him.

agree 100% :cool:
 
  • #31
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Chen said:
That's another thing... it is a lot more than "a few thugs". Your newspapers only report the big fish, like Yasin and Rantisi, but we kill a lot more terrorists every day, and that's only from the reports in the Israeli press (who knows how many more we kill without telling anyone).
Fine, they catch a lot of thugs. What does it matter if they catch 10 terrorists or 10,000 if another 10 or 10,000 replace them? This isn't a problem that can be attacked "one terrorist at a time"; The supply of terrorists is effectively unlimited.

I'm not sure this discussion is doing anything other than going in circles...perhaps we should just agree to disagree.
 
  • #32
russ_watters
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master_coda said:
Fine, they catch a lot of thugs. What does it matter if they catch 10 terrorists or 10,000 if another 10 or 10,000 replace them? This isn't a problem that can be attacked "one terrorist at a time"; The supply of terrorists is effectively unlimited.

I'm not sure this discussion is doing anything other than going in circles...perhaps we should just agree to disagree.
Well, lets look at it from the other direction then: You've told us how they should not deal with the problem, now tell us how Israel should deal with the problem.
 
  • #33
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russ_watters said:
Well, lets look at it from the other direction then: You've told us how they should not deal with the problem, now tell us how Israel should deal with the problem.
Oh, I sure wish I had a great solution.

Well, I support the current policy of capturing/killing suicide bombers themselves. This does prevent actual bombings. By itself this isn't a solution though, since they'll just be followed by more bombers later on.

For terrorist leaders, a more observational strategy might work better. Of course, Israel is probably spying on them as much as they can already; but overt attacks again the leaders only makes that more difficult, since it tends to drive them further underground.

Israel could put a great deal of effort into supporting non-violent groups among the Palestinians; this is difficult though, since obviously for any aid they provide, at least some will end up in the hands of the terrorists. Plus aiding these groups may just get them labeled as collaborators, anyway...

Perhaps even just taking a consistent stand would help Israel. It's certainly difficult to understand how their policy works right now...they commit to a withdrawal and then all of a sudden go on the offensive...and then they turn around and commit to a withdrawal. I understand that they're just reacting to a dynamic situation, but it becomes difficult to take people seriously when they Israels policy changes every few weeks.

Perhaps the current situation is just too unpredictable to make a good plan to work out of; unless a drastic change in the social and political structure among the Israelis or Palestinians occurs, there may not be a policy that can end the cycle of retaliation. It's like an awful prisoners dilemma; both sides have to cooperate to come away with anything, but once one side demonstrates weakness, the other side will sense their advantage and try and bargain selfishly.
 
  • #34
russ_watters
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master_coda said:
Oh, I sure wish I had a great solution.
I appreciate your honesty. Your suggestions aren't bad, but clearly this isn't an 'x won't work, they should do y' situation. No, using force isn't a perfect solution, but I do think its the best.
 
  • #35
ShawnD
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Israel could put a great deal of effort into supporting non-violent groups among the Palestinians; this is difficult though, since obviously for any aid they provide, at least some will end up in the hands of the terrorists. Plus aiding these groups may just get them labeled as collaborators, anyway...
Looking at how many times neighboring Arab countries have tried to destroy Israel, it's quite clear that peace is not the option Arabs have in mind.



I think it's great that terrorist leaders are being taken out.
 
  • #36
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ShawnD said:
Looking at how many times neighboring Arab countries have tried to destroy Israel, it's quite clear that peace is not the option Arabs have in mind.
That's a rather absurd generalization. Are you saying that there are no Arabs in the Middle East who don't want to destroy Israel?
 
  • #37
ShawnD
Science Advisor
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If there are any (which is possible), they are certainly a minority.
 

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