Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh: Spreading the Myth of an "Obama Recession

[Ivan Seeking]

Hannity, Limbaugh promote myth of an "Obama recession"

Summary: Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh continue to suggest that President-elect Barack Obama is to blame for the decline in the stock market, referring to the state of the stock market as an "Obama recession." In fact, analysts have refuted the proposition that the market decline has anything to do with anticipation of Obama's presidency.[continued]

http://mediamatters.org/items/200811120011

One has to ask: Are they really that stupid? I think these two qualify for public assistance as they are clearly mentally disadvantaged.

 

[AstroRoyale]

I think its a consequence of being a "shock jock" or shock jackass in these cases. You have to continually up your shock factor in order to keep people tuned in. What is really troublesome is the fact that enough people listen to them to keep them in business.

I must admit, I do sometimes listen to conservative talk radio in the car, but is only to keep me mad enough to stay awake on long trips, and it is usually somewhat humorous in a sad sort of way. . .

 

[Ivan Seeking]

It is still polluting your brain.

To me this is like the series of movies called "The Faces of Death". These were quite the rage some years ago - movies of people and animals dying - but I refused to watch any of it because once it gets into my head, it can't be unwatched.

 

[Ronnin]

Perhaps this recession is the concequence of a multitude of factors. Maybe the federal government shouldn't get in bed with business as well as vice versa. This throwing bombs from both sides is becomming really dull and doesn't resolve anything. This has been a long time comming and needs to allowed to run its course. Yes, it will be painfull but you can't patchwork a ship with this many holes in it.

 

[hypatia]

I am somewhat relived that the rest of the nation has begun to feel the recession that Michigan has been in for close to 2 years now. For Limbaugh to say that Obama had anything to do with it, is just so pointless. But what scares me, is the people who believe him.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

It's silly to say that Obama caused the current troubles. But it is not silly to say that fears of an Obama Presidency with a Democratic Congress are at play. Recently Treasury Sec. Paulson was given $700 billion to buy up devalued mortgage assets. He spent $350 billion, but not for that purpose. Instead he bought preferred stock. It is coming out now that Paulson wants to abandon current activity and instead focus on I'm not sure what, the automobile industry, student loans, credit card debt. I think he's still working out the content of the new plan. Republicans were right to vote against that package. Now the market remembers that the President elect was a cheerleader for that failed plan. While I caution against reading too much into short term gyrations in the market, I also note that in the 7 trading days since he won the election the S&P went from 1005.75 on Nov 4, to a low of 818.69 earlier today, a drop of 18.6% just shy of a bear market all on it's own.

 

[Office_Shredder]

Now the market remembers that the President elect was a cheerleader for that failed plan.

So your argument is the current administration put together a bad plan and is failing to implement it, and people are worried that the next administration supported the bad plan... but the bad plan that's causing people to worry about the next administration's plans isn't actually causing any of the problem? The current bailout fiasco is happening under a republican administration, so it's tough to say that makes people worry about a democratic administration, even if Obama supported the original plan since McCain did also.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Republicans were right to vote against that package.

In fact, Republican leaders strongly supported the plan. Boener was almost in tears as he begged the House to pass it. And yes, McCain flew back to Washington to push it through. It can be argued that those who voted against the bailout would drive this country into the ground over ideology; if they haven't already.

The fact is that failure to pass it may well have meant disaster. We were told that we have a gun to our heads; now vote.

 

[CaptainQuasar]

But it is not silly to say that fears of an Obama Presidency with a Democratic Congress are at play.

Yeah, but do those fears have to do with anything Obama has actually done or might do differently from any other president-elect, or do they have much more to do with Limbaugh and Hannity and others who not at all shyly participated in convincing great numbers of people that our president-elect is a Muslim terrorist and who obviously wouldn't hesitate to do the same sort of thing on the economic front?

I.e. does rampant ambient fear have more to do with the guys who sell fear for a business or the guys who sell hope for a business?

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[Evo]

http://mediamatters.org/items/200811120011

One has to ask: Are they really that stupid? I think these two qualify for public assistance as they are clearly mentally disadvantaged.

They're not stupid, they are hate mongerers. The stock has been dropping because the original bailout plan has been changed. Now it looks like we won't be buying bad debt.

http://www.businessweek.com/investor/content/nov2008/pi20081112_348731.htm?campaign_id=rss_topStories

 

[Evo]

Now the market remembers that the President elect was a cheerleader for that failed plan.

Not true, Obama was not happy to vote on it at all.

In an interview Sunday on CBS' "Face the Nation," Obama said he had not reviewed the language of the latest proposal, but that if the core principles he put forth were incorporated into it, his "inclination" would be to vote for it.

The Illinois senator said the final deal must include strong oversight, make sure taxpayers share in any gains when the market recovers, provide relief for homeowners, and make sure taxpayers' money does not go toward any executives' bonuses.

Obama told CBS that it appears those principles have been included, and if that is the case, "my inclination would be to vote for it, understanding I'm not happy about it. We should have never gotten into this place in the first place."

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/28/news/economy/reaction_mccain_obama/

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

The current bailout fiasco is happening under a republican administration, so it's tough to say that makes people worry about a democratic administration, even if Obama supported the original plan since McCain did also.

The market is afraid that Obama and a Democratic Congress will continue the current bailout fiasco. It is not worried that McCain will.

In fact, Republican leaders strongly supported the plan.

The leaders but not the rank and file. 2/3 voted against.

Not true, Obama was not happy to vote on it at all.

You are twisting my words. I didn't say he was happy about voting for it, I said he was a cheerleader for others to vote for it.

LA CROSSE, Wis. – Senator Barack Obama intensified his efforts to rally support for the $700 billion financial bailout package on Wednesday, selling the idea to skeptical voters – and members of Congress – as a plan to “safeguard the American economy.”

“This plan is not perfect. Democrats and Republicans in Congress have legitimate concerns about it,” Mr. Obama said. “I know many Americans share those concerns, but it is clear that this is what we must do right now to prevent a crisis from turning into a catastrophe.”

In a story entitled "Obama Sells Bailout Plan to Skeptics"
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/01/obama-sells-bailout-plan-to-skeptics/"
There was also a story about how he went to the Black Caucus, which had rejected it, and talked them into supporting it, but I can't find that story now.

 

[Astronuc]

Fortunately, I don't pay attention to either of those two, or O'Reilly.

BTW - the Dow rallied ~560 pts. today.


The systemic weaknesses in the financial markets and the global economy have been slowly evolving. There was a lot of mismanagement, some inappropriate financial instruments, e.g. synthetic CDOs, and too much leverage (too much stuff bought on credit or speculative investing). There is no quick fix to the sudden loss of 'apparent' wealth - it will take time - a few years perhaps.

 

[AstroRoyale]

Oh, I don't know if it pollutes my noggin, I don't lean a bit more to the right every time I hear that habitual drug abuser Limbaugh speak, probably more to the left. . . just gets me all fired up.

Anyway, as for the recession, it was inevitable. Its a derivatives bubble bursting caused by too little regulation of these murky financial "products". Nonetheless, markets historically do better under democratic presidents :)

 

[Astronuc]

“This plan is not perfect. Democrats and Republicans in Congress have legitimate concerns about it,” Mr. Obama said. “I know many Americans share those concerns, but it is clear that this is what we must do right now to prevent a crisis from turning into a catastrophe.”

Doesn't sound much like cheerleading. I think Obama, like others, were far more concerned about a catastrophic collapse of the US economy.

 

[CaptainQuasar]

If a team of cheerleaders went out on the field at the halftime of a football game and cheered, "Let's prevent this crisis from turning into a catastrophe!" I don't think they would be regarded as very good cheerleaders.

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[Jimmy Snyder]

Doesn't sound much like cheerleading.

That's because of your selective quoting. Here's the part you left out.

Senator Barack Obama intensified his efforts to rally support for the $700 billion financial bailout package on Wednesday, selling the idea to skeptical voters – and members of Congress – as a plan to “safeguard the American economy.”

 

[Gokul43201]

While I caution against reading too much into short term gyrations in the market, I also note that in the 7 trading days since he won the election the S&P went from 1005.75 on Nov 4, to a low of 818.69 earlier today, a drop of 18.6% just shy of a bear market all on it's own.

However, when you were posting this, the S&P was up over 850, and now it's up over 900. What must we make of this?

 

[CaptainQuasar]

The leaders but not the rank and file. 2/3 voted against.

This would probably be many of the same people who bravely made every attempt to disassociate themselves from Bush and the Republican party in reelection contests, some even going so far as to feature Obama in campaign ads. Go figure, people like that not having the spine to do anything but cover their butts when faced with dealing with the financial crisis.

Not saying that all Democrats supported it out of a tough moral fiber - it's about as pathetic as the many Democrats who voted to endorse the War in Iraq instead of standing up for what's right at a risk to their political careers.

That's because of your selective quoting. Here's the part you left out.

Or perhaps it's because no matter how it's spun "we need to take these unfortunate measures to safeguard the American economy" can't be pejoratively passed off as cheerleading no matter how hard you try. If you simply wanted to say that he advocated for that solution to the problem no one would object I think.

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[Jimmy Snyder]

However, when you were posting this, the S&P was up over 850, and now it's up over 900. What must we make of this?

I wouldn't read too much into short term gyrations in the market. I have a granularity of one month myself.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Or perhaps it's because no matter how it's spun "we need to take these unfortunate measures to safeguard the American economy" can't be pejoratively passed off as cheerleading no matter how hard you try.

If you cheerlead on Tuesday, and don't cheerlead on Wednesday, you're a cheerleader no matter how it's spun. By calling Obama a cheerleader, I didn't say or imply that he 'liked' the bill, but rather that he encouraged others to vote for it. Think about cheerleaders at a sporting event (aahhhhh). They hate football, they only encourage you to like it.

 

[CaptainQuasar]

If you cheerlead on Tuesday, and don't cheerlead on Wednesday, you're a cheerleader no matter how it's spun.

Yeah, but if you can't find any examples of Obama saying something like "This bailout will be WONderful! Go bailout! Rah! Rah!" and all you can provide are examples of him saying "We need to roll up our sleeves and make some tough decisions for the good of the country, here are some guidelines I think we ought to follow" it's pretty clear he's not a cheerleader, you're just saying that to be pejorative.

Being a cheerleader on the political stage would be setting absurdly high unrealistic expectations for what the team's going to do and trying to raise up cheers of support regardless of the odds against you. Something like declaring "We will be welcomed as liberators!" instead of straight talk like "This will be a tough job, many innocent people will die, and it could take a decade, but it's best for everyone if we do it."

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[Jimmy Snyder]

Yeah, but if you can't find any examples of Obama saying something like "This bailout will be WONderful! Go bailout! Rah! Rah!" and all you can provide are examples of him saying "We need to roll up our sleeves and make some tough decisions for the good of the country, here are some guidelines I think we ought to follow" it's pretty clear he's not a cheerleader, you're just saying that to be pejorative.

The following is from my post #12 and includes a link

Senator Barack Obama intensified his efforts to rally support for the $700 billion financial bailout package on Wednesday, selling the idea to skeptical voters – and members of Congress – as a plan to “safeguard the American economy.”

Sis-boom-bah.

 

[Gokul43201]

I wouldn't read too much into short term gyrations in the market. I have a granularity of one month myself.

You know the VIX has been cruising at an altitude of about 65 over the last couple months? One week windows are not a good idea.

Incidentally, here are some other similar periods in the last 2 months when the S&P fell by 15% (from an intraday high to an intraday low).

Sep 19 - Sep 29
Sep 30 - Oct 06
Oct 07 - Oct 10
Oct 14 - Oct 16
Oct 21 - Oct 28

Between Sep 29 and Oct 10, the S&P fell by over 30%

 

[CaptainQuasar]

I would certainly say that Obama has been a cheerleader for his own presidential campaign, and for a fairly nebulous idea of "Change in Washington", if that's any consolation.

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[CaptainQuasar]

Sis-boom-bah.

Oh yeah, "we need to support this plan as the best chance to safeguard the American economy" is so totally the "We will be welcomed as liberators" of the financial crisis. Not.

Hey Greg, let's rename the site from "Physics Forums" to "Physics Cheerleading Squads." http://www.runemasterstudios.com/graemlins/images/lol.gif All the crackpots will love to hear how the physicists here are just cheerleading for physics, 'cause it's their team, y'know.

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[Cyrus]

http://mediamatters.org/items/200811120011

One has to ask: Are they really that stupid? I think these two qualify for public assistance as they are clearly mentally disadvantaged.

Yes, they are. Hannity has a high school diploma. He is that stupid.

 

[Proton Soup]

i think a lot of it is stupid. and a lot of it is just partisanism. way back in the primaries, somebody at FOX, maybe Rupert himself, had decided that their man was going to be Rudy. and so they all pushed him aggressively. if someone called into Hannity's show and had something negative to say about Guiliani, Shawn would either cut them off or talk over them. well, the people in the party were having none of it of course because it's just so obvious the guy is little more than a pompous douchebag with no presidential qualities at all.

i don't know if he even believes half of what he says, but it's a good gig that pays well so...

 

[russ_watters]

Ehh, I heard liberals saying the same thing about Clinton's recession. Extremists on both sides are idiots.

 

[WarPhalange]

I disagree, I think this is the fault of whoever is president in 2016.

 

[Chi Meson]

Ehh, I heard liberals saying the same thing about Clinton's recession. Extremists on both sides are idiots.

I recall Clinton taking credit for a sudden upswing in the stock market just after his election. I also recall Rush lambasting Bubba for such an absurd thing as believing that a president-elect can take credit for anything like that.

That was back when Rush had his TV program. Now that was good entertainment!

 

[Helios]

Are they idiots? Tell that to Rush as he drives past you to make a bank deposit. In the marketplace, the consumer rules. Rush prospers but you must "blame" the audience for being the "idiots". Actually Rush is pretty dang funny when you have figured out his schtick.

 

[CaptainQuasar]

Are they idiots? Tell that to Rush as he drives past you to make a bank deposit. In the marketplace, the consumer rules. Rush prospers but you must "blame" the audience for being the "idiots". Actually Rush is pretty dang funny when you have figured out his schtick.

You're right. Anna Nicole Smith was obviously a genius.

⚛​

 

[Chi Meson]

Are they idiots? Tell that to Rush as he drives past you to make a bank deposit. In the marketplace, the consumer rules. Rush prospers but you must "blame" the audience for being the "idiots". Actually Rush is pretty dang funny when you have figured out his schtick.

I agree about Rush NOT being an idiot, and I agree that a lot of his rabid fans ARE idiots, but I don't agree that he is funny. I used to.

 

[Hexnergy]

Nah, they're not idiots, well hannity might be... but it does tell how stupid the target demographic is, that's all they appeal to. Good thing the kind of people they go after are now somewhat irrelevant.

 

[WarPhalange]

Are they idiots? Tell that to Rush as he drives past you to make a bank deposit. In the marketplace, the consumer rules. Rush prospers but you must "blame" the audience for being the "idiots". Actually Rush is pretty dang funny when you have figured out his schtick.

The Free Market (TM), ladies and gentlemen.

If any of you still believe in it, let me remind you of Britney Spears, Paris Hilton, and your local news. All thanks to the Free Market (TM).

And what does government spending produce? The Peace Corp, student loans, and research grants.


Yes, I am cherry picking my examples. But I just think it's hilarious that it's thanks to the Free Market (TM) that we get people like Rush Limbaugh, which is a cancer on society.

 

[OmCheeto]

And what does government spending produce? The Peace Corp, student loans, and research grants.

The list goes on and on.

The following is an excerpt from an argument I had 3 days after the start of the 2nd gulf war when I suggested that we raise the tax on automobile fuel by $3/gallon and invest it in alternative energy:

Quickly I will deal with "photovoltaic" technology. Government money comes with government agendas. This will effectively hamper and mislead any attempt at comprehensive research. ( Even a brief study in the history of governmental intrusion into the realm of research will proof this. )

I happen to like highways, sewer systems, the internet, running water, having made it to the moon, etc. etc.

I don't usually document my arguments, but this one was quite humorous.

As for the two idiots, I've never watched or listened to Hannity. My views on Limbaugh are the same as Evo's. Although I would use several more colorful adjectives to describe him.

 

[CaptainQuasar]

I happen to like highways, sewer systems, the internet, running water, having made it to the moon, etc. etc.

This reminds me of the Mormon guy on CNN... what's his name... Glenn Beck, pounding on his desk and saying, "I want to know how we're going to fight World War III!"

When his show first appeared he seemed somewhat reasonable for a conservative but later on the crazy came out. Then, I couldn't figure out why he kept mentioning clean coal as a wonderful new power source, the ultimate solution to all energy problems. I heard how the coal industry had launched a massive deeply funded PR campaign and I lost any shred of respect I had for him. (I realize that coal gas and things do have some potential, but this was over the top and suspiciously timed.)

⚛​

 

[Proton Soup]

eh, free market is what brings you variety. would you really want to live in a world with only government cheese? i wouldn't, and i don't even like cheese.

 

[OmCheeto]

eh, free market is what brings you variety. would you really want to live in a world with only government cheese? i wouldn't, and i don't even like cheese.

Odd you should mention cheese. I was looking up the definition of "being milked" today and ran across an article about the price of milk being determined in a secret room based on the value of 500 lb blocks of cheese.

...

Anyways, yes, you are correct. Government run everything would be disastrous.(see: USSR)
But they are good for really big projects that the private sector can't afford.

http://www.mwscomp.com/movies/brian/brian-09.htm"
Reg: All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?
Xerxes: Brought peace.
Reg: Oh. Peace? Shut up!

 

[WarPhalange]

Have you been to your local Safeway lately? Okay, the cheese is good, but if you look at something like ham, you have plenty variety, but they are all equally low on the quality scale.

It's all garbage. If you need an objective way to show how poor quality a certain food is, just look at how long it takes to go bad. If I leave an apple in my fridge, a week can go by and its fine, maybe 2 weeks even, I don't know, it's never really come to that. Banana's don't last 2 weeks. Real ham tends to be bad after a week. Safeway ham? Like a month.

Know how you win the war on terror? Put Safeways in the Middle East. Then, the people living there will be too fat and malnourished to do anything useful.

 

[CaptainQuasar]

Odd you should mention cheese. I was looking up the definition of "being milked" today and ran across an article about the price of milk being determined in a secret room based on the value of 500 lb blocks of cheese.

Actually, for a long time, here in the NorthEast U.S. at least, dairy prices were federally price-controlled. So that makes sense to me.

⚛​

 

[Proton Soup]

Have you been to your local Safeway lately? Okay, the cheese is good, but if you look at something like ham, you have plenty variety, but they are all equally low on the quality scale.

It's all garbage. If you need an objective way to show how poor quality a certain food is, just look at how long it takes to go bad. If I leave an apple in my fridge, a week can go by and its fine, maybe 2 weeks even, I don't know, it's never really come to that. Banana's don't last 2 weeks. Real ham tends to be bad after a week. Safeway ham? Like a month.

Know how you win the war on terror? Put Safeways in the Middle East. Then, the people living there will be too fat and malnourished to do anything useful.

bananas? they simply last what they last. they've been going through a ripening process long before they get to you. apples? depends on the variety. some don't last. some you can put in a barrel and keep in storage for months.

ham's probably full of preservatives, usually. there's also different curing processes like sugaring or smoking. not sure how long those last, but the curing was around long before the current consumer type products.

but... there's generally two kinds of consumer foods. one is sold at places like Wal-Mart for the masses, the other at Publix or much more swank outlets to people that don't mind paying 30~100% more for the privilege of avoiding Wal-Mart people.

 

[OmCheeto]

Actually, for a long time, here in the NorthEast U.S. at least, dairy prices were federally price-controlled. So that makes sense to me.

⚛​

Down with the government! Let our cows go!

http://tracypress.com/content/view/11073/2244/"
Written by Tracy Press
Friday, 07 September 2007
A commentary by Joel Greeno of MinutemanMedia.org.

There is no free market for fresh milk in the U.S., unless you buy it directly from a farmer. Consumer prices are calculated by the U.S. Department of Agriculture through a bizarre, outdated formula and the federal market order system. This USDA-imposed “price” is based upon secretive trading of 500-pound cheddar blocks on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange. At the request of Sen. Russ Feingold, D-Wis., the General Accounting Office recently concluded an investigation of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange, which found it prone to market manipulation and price fixing.

...

Under the federal price support system known as MILC (Milk Income Lost Contract), I am expected to lose $8 per 100 pounds to receive a 33-cent per 100 pound subsidy because the “free” market won’t cover my cost of production. That means, on my farm, I lose $3,600 per month in income to claim a $148.50 check from the government. And our politicians think they have done family farmers a favor with this subsidy system, when they should be demanding that the corporations pay a fair price!

 

[Cyrus]

everyone post your favorite video of hannity getting totally owned:



Ba-hahahahahaha.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDp5_Zgv3j4&feature=related

ewwwwwwwww so owned.

 

[WarPhalange]

I like how Hannity is the buff, handsome guy and Colmes is the scrawny, ugly guy. Very well-played by Fox.

 

[CaptainQuasar]

Speaking in general of conservatives getting owned http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_h4Pi8wcns" of Chris Matthews catching Kevin James trying to fake basic historical knowledge he didn't have is almost painful to watch. Matthews takes James up in his jaws and shakes him around like a rag doll for like five minutes straight, James is basically bleeding his guts out all over the stage and Matthews will not show him the slightest bit of mercy. (But the good stuff begins within the first thirty seconds.) I swear that Matthews is autistic or something.

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[WarPhalange]

Matthews is weird, Olbermann messes up his words every 5 minutes, and they have Pat Buchanan on. And they still manage not to totally suck. It's like a caricature of Fox.

 

[CaptainQuasar]

Yeah, Matthews sometimes acts just like a friend of mine who has Asperger's syndrome.

⚛​

 

[WarPhalange]

He spits a lot, too.

But if you like total ownage, check this out: